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what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:19 pm
by Strik3agle98
what is trim?
what does it do?
how I can use it?

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:49 pm
by halberdier25
Oh, look. I was nice enough to google it for you.

It does the exact same thing in the game that it does in real life. Kind of like everything else in the game.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:14 pm
by Taskforce 58
Vandal, come get JR, he needs a little lovin'.

As to the original question: Let's say you are out flying, and you want to stay at a constant altitude while flying at a somewhat slow airspeed (something slower than the normal cruising speed). In order to do that you find yourself always have to pull on the joystick a little bit to keep the nose pointing a bit above the horizon, because if you let go of the joystick the nose will drop and you'll go into a descend. Well you find this a bit tiring, so instead of constantly holding the joystick, you use the trim control to adjust the elevator so that even when you let go of the joystick, it will still hold the nose up in order for you to maintain altitude.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:15 pm
by Honey Badger
nice tutorial.

List of default controls

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:24 pm
by vandal
Halb, be nice or I won't do that thing you love so much.

TF58 is the perfect answer for standard flying. But it depends if you asking from a simple flying point of view or a YS dogfighting point of view?
I'm sure one of our great dog fighters can tell you how to use it in dogfighting and what advantages and disadvantages it brings to your killing ability.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:47 pm
by Bombcat
TF's answer is prefect for standard flying, but trim in YS can also add a little extra performance during aggressive maneuvering. In game, the effect of trim can stack on top of the control inputs, giving you a little extra pull.
Many aircraft, particularly the larger planes, can sustain higher pitch rates than the control settings will permit. An ideal example of this is a stock 737 in a steep dive. The aircraft is flying well within it's envelope, but the available pitch rate may not be sufficient to avoid an unplanned collision with the ground. Under these circumstances, adding full nose up trim to your maximum back pressure on the stick will increase your pitch rate, and may prevent you from hitting into the ground. You can take advantage of the same effect when dogfighting, wringing additional performance from Tomcats and Flankers to be more competitive against modestly more agile fighters. Initiating full trim with the T key while pulling back on the stick in an agile fighter will generally result in a rapid pitch-up and stall which resembles the cobra maneuver, but can be difficult to control.

In standard dogfighting this is not particularly useful, as the stock F-16 is already pulling pretty close to the limits of it's performance, and attempts to use trim to 'pull harder' will frequently stall the aircraft, leaving you more vulnerable than before. These days, using trim in a dogfight is considered cheating by many, and is generally frowned upon.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:03 pm
by halberdier25
The stock F-16 can take (or could take, back in the day) three hits of up-trim without stalling.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:14 am
by Bombcat
Three taps of the up trim was the standard when I began flying in YS, and unexpected stalls were negligibly more common than with no trim at all. At 25-45% fuel, the stock F-16 can take a good bit more, maybe as much as 8, before the plane will stall every time you pull all the way back- it depends on the speeds you're flying and the weight of the aircraft.

Still, going without trim while dogfighting similar aircraft is the standard these days, and liberal use of trim in a light aircraft will lead to stalls. As long as there is an agreed upon standard, trimming is just fine. Managing the line between maximum performance and the loss of control is a key trait for a competitive pilot, and I'd not mind at all if folks wanted to play with those limits more often. Just make sure the folks you're fighting know what you're doing before you start experimenting with trim in one on one dogfights.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:19 pm
by halberdier25
Good to know not much has changed. Three hits of trim is what Zeus and Talon taught me on and what Vincent and Raven would teach others on while I looked on in awe of their gaming prowess.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:21 pm
by Phoenix
so is it legit for dogfights or not?

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:27 pm
by halberdier25
Back in the day it was good form to ask beforehand. Dunno how much has changed, but usually we'd DF with the stipulation that we could use flaps/trim, or fight clean. Then there's the whole debate about what fuel loads to use, etc etc etc.

Re: what is trim?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:51 pm
by Doomsday
Today's standards in a dogfight is to use stock F-16, 30% fuel, flaps allowed. Never use trim unless you and your competitor agrees to use it.