YS Air Racing

YSFlight general discussion & everything in between
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YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:24 pm

Before you pass by this topic saying "We already have Formula YS and YSGP" just hear me out. I'm not talking about specially made aircraft for air racing. If anybody here has played the Playstation game N. Gen racing, you know what I'm talking about. It breathes new life into air racing of the past by using decommissioned military jets that are sponsored by different organisations. The aircraft are yours, but you are free to do different upgrades, like put canards on an A-10 with more powerful engines to make it able to beat a MiG-21. There are 4 different classes or "tiers" of aircraft in the game. Trainers, Fighters, S-Fighters, and X-Fighters. All of the classes except for trainers have weapons enabled. This can create a hectic and challenging environment, and I think it could also create a lot of fun. I say we could have organized classes based on thrust, or weight. Then we won't have unfair engagements like a MiG-21 versus an F-15. We would be able to have different tracks for different classes of aircraft. So let's say that F-5's and F-16's would be in tighter courses, while people in MiG-25's and F-14's have larger turns. On to the aircraft. I say they should be repainted/modified HQP/GAC aircraft. That way we won't need anybody going way out of their way for permissions to release their new race-modded A-6, also, we'd be able to keep a pretty lag-free environment. Now, I'd also like to implement a money system. You start out with xx,xxx dollars, and get x,xxx for winning a simple race, and then xx,xxx for winning a tourney. With this money you can buy new aircraft and upgrades for your aircraft. Anybody with me on this? I think it could open up a whole new area of YS Flight to explore, and it can also bring motivation for new people to join, or to create motivation to do your own mods and upgrades.

Racing Rules/Selections

STARTING BUDGET: $10,000,000

AIRCRAFT

TIER 1

PISTON

P-38 (F,H, and J) - $8,000,000
P-47 (C, D-25) - $7,250,000
P-51 (B,D) - $7,500,000
Spitfire (Mk.Ia, Mk.Vb, L.F. Mk.Vb Trop, Mk.IX, Mk.XIVe, L.F.Mk.XIVe) - $7,000,000
Tempest V - $7,800,000
Bf-109 (E-7, F-4, G-2, G-6,G-6/R-6, K-4) - $6,000,000
Fw 190 (A-8, F-8, D-9) - $7,000,000
F4F-3/F4F-4 - $5,000,000
SBD Dauntless - TBA (Undecided)
TBD Devastator - TBA (Undecided)
TBF Avenger - TBA (Undecided)
A6M2 Zero - $5,500,000
D3A1 Val - TBA (Undecided)
B5N2 Kate - TBA (Undecided)
P-39 (D,Q) - $5,800,000
P-40 (B,C,E,F,N, Tomahawk II.A, Kittyhawk I.A) - $5,900,000
Ki-27 - $5,000,000
Ki-43 - $5,200,000
Ki-61 - $6,000,000
Ki-84 - $7,100,000

TURBOJET

Me 262A-1 - $12,000,000
Me 163B-1A - TBA (Undecided)
He 162A-2 - $14,000,000
Gloster Meteor (Mk.I, Mk.II) - $12,000,000
P-80A - $12,000,000

TIER 2

AV-8B - $23,700,000
Harrier GR.7 - $23,700,000
A-6 (A, E) - $15,000,000
EA-6B - $18,000,000
KA-6D - $15,000,000
T-50 - $20,000,000
A-4 - $17,000,000
TA-4 - $17,500,000
L-39 - $18,000,000
T-4 - $19,000,000
AMX - $17,000,000
AMX-T - $17,000,000
Alphajet - $18,000,000
A-10 - $14,000,000
Hawk - $12,000,000

TIER 3

F-4 (B, C, D, E, EJ, G, J, N, S) - TBA
Phantom (FG.1, FGR.2) - TBA
F-104 (A, C, G, S) - TBA
QF-104 - TBA
MiG-23 - TBA
F-20 (A, A+) - TBA
TF-20A - TBA
JA-37 - TBA
JL-9 - TBA
T-2 - TBA
F-1 - TBA
T-38 - TBA
Mirage 2000 - TBA

TIER 4

EF-2000 (F.2, T.1, A, B) - TBA
F-16 (A, B, C, D) - TBA
F/A-18 (C, D, E, F) - TBA
F-22 - TBA
SU-27 (S, UB) - TBA
SU-30MK - TBA
SU-35S - TBA
MiG-29 - TBA
JAS-39 (C, D) - TBA
F-14D - TBA
F-15 (C, D, E, SE, N) - TBA
F-16C - TBA
Rafale-(M, B) - TBA
F-35A - TBA

SPECIAL (Loaned for racing, available for purchase after 5 races in the aircraft)
C-130H/J - $38,000,000
CC-130E - $38,000,000
AC-130A - $38,000,000
LC-130 - $38,000,000
EC-130J - $38,000,000

TEAMS

You can choose a team when you first start out and join, however, the only way to change your team is to buy out of your current contract for $40,000,000 (once every 10 races, so people cannot manipulate this in later stages to gain an advantage on the track) and then apply for a different team.

Archangel Racing Ltd. has access to higher grades of fuel than the other teams. Add 5% more thrust to any aircraft you fly when in this team.

Eagle Feather AR has connections that allows you to get lightweight alloys that keep the same strength. Reduce your aircraft's weight by 5% when in this team.

Needle Point RT has highly advanced avionics systems and control surfaces. Add 5% to your Pitch, Roll, and Yaw rates.

(Note: If you have any complaints/suggestions/ideas for any of the teams or perks, please either post here or PM me)


UPGRADES

Level One Upgrades

Enhanced Spoiler (add spoiler for Tier 1) - $2,000,000
Larger control surfaces (Increase pitch, yaw, and roll rates 8% each) - $4,000,000
Increased compression engine (add 10% power to engine) - $5,000,000
Thin Skin (take 8% weight off aircraft, reduce strength 8%) - $6,000,000
Thick Skin (increase strength 8%, add 8% weight) - $6,000,000
Reverse Pitch Propeller (add reverse thrust) - $3,000,000
Add guns - $10,000,000

More Upgrades Coming

Racetracks

We will be using the YSGP tracks from the 2011 pack for now, so that will give us a few different courses to go to. Link to YSGP 2011: http://205.196.120.89/9ajw13b62lcg/9cls ... GP2011.zip

We will not be using the aircraft (at least for now), only the racetracks.

Application Form

Please fill out an application if you wish to participate. It should follow a general format such as this:

Aircraft: XXXX
Team: XXXX
Upgrades (If any): XXXX
Remaining Money: $XXXX

Race Rules

Do not take off until the order has been given to do so.

Some races may constitute a "pace lap" in which the group is in the air and flying before the race starts. This kind of a start is required at the Medium Track.

If any person happens to crash, it is too bad for them. You are expected to be able to complete every race, and in the even of a crash, the user is automatically disqualified from the race.


Prizes

Tier 1 race purses go as follows:
1st: $5,000,000
2nd: $2,500,000
3rd: $1,500,000
4th: $1,000,000

Tier 2 race purses go as follows:
1st: $10,000,000
2nd: $5,000,000
3rd: $2,500,000
4th: $1,500,000

Tier 3 race purses go as follows:
1st: $15,000,000
2nd: $7,500,000
3rd: $5,000,000
4th: $2,500,000

Tier 4 race purses go as follows:
1st: $30,000,000
2nd: $15,000,000
3rd: $7,500,000
4th: $3,500,000

All money is constant for all classes, so you can race in Tier 1 for fun and race in Tier 3 for money, or race in all Tiers and have a great chance of getting a lot of money.

Other Notes

All aircraft listed can be found in HQP/GAC the Birdfarm Pack, or Taskforce 58's Down in Flames packs. Feel free to paint these aircraft as you like, just give credit to HQP/GAC, the Birdfarm Pack, or Taskforce 58 depending on the creator.

Prices are for fictional purposes, please do not gripe unless you think they are way off. TBA is a to-be-announced price. I will get on these soon.

If an aircraft has a red undecided next to it, then it may or may not be available, depending on popular vote.

All aircraft will be bought de-militarized, so they will not have weapons when you buy them, so make sure you eliminate the weight of the weapons that were on the aircraft originally. Aircraft are allowed to have external fuel tanks on them if the pilot wishes to use them.
Last edited by Cobalt09 on Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Shand » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:48 am

I do like that idea. the only problem would be getting people involved enough for it to be fun enough for people to get involved!
As far as money intergration goes, ideally that would have to be fully intergrated into the game. to start with i'd suggest a "yellow jersey" system, whereby the winner of the last event could fly a plane with certain markings.
of course the problem with allowing people to mod planes is it rapidly becomes unrealistic, so there'd have to be some RL basis for any modifications!
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:25 am

The way you keep the modding of planes to a realistic level is the money system that is made into it. Also, there should be limits to the overall enhancements to the aircraft themselves.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Shand » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:29 am

All the nitty gritty details are only an interesting thought experiment unless we could solve the initial hurdle of getting enough people interested for it to be interesting.
Ideally the best way to deal with modding would to actually design your own plane, and simulate that to get the stats to put into YS. but yea... thats not really do-able, unless you happen to be an aerodynamics expert with good programming skills and mathematical intelligence :) [genuinely not an insult, it would be VERY hard]

PROS: to allowing modding (for monies or points or anything rewardwise): More interesting in the long run, you have an incentive to do well, better you do, more awesome your plane.
CONS: Makes it harder for a new player to join in, since they will have just stock planes.

Reward based bonuses work in large games with large communities.

although i am now very interested in getting plane design worked into YS... how awesome would that be? but i dont think ys is anywhere near powerful enough.... i want multiengine support next :P I'm rambling now, i cant rememer what my point was.... :(
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Crazypilot » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:28 pm

There are plenty of race maps in YSFlight. We could easily HQP:GAC aircraft and organize races. Maybe even team races.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:53 pm

Just what I was thinking Crazy, I could get a HQP F-4 Phantom through a couple of YSGP raceways just fine, and the raceway in the Usagi pack is also good for the races, but the Usagi one is more spread out and for faster/less maneuverable aircraft. And to Shand, the idea behind the upgrades is that this upgrade makes it so you can do XXX to the .dat file by XXX amount, but that makes you need to reduce XXX amount to XXX in the .dat file. Then XXX amount of money is subtracted from your total. Also, the true beauty of this is that you can own multiple race aircraft. You can choose to sell your current airplane for a better one, or you can keep the old one for more race opportunities. So the new people to it can have similar competition, and cash is awarded to all finishers. Also, the money system is based on the honor system. If the honor system doesn't play out, then you must report all things to the head guy and then he will make adjustments in something like an Excel file.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Boogergoblins__ » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:52 pm

Im all in

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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Shand » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:04 am

cobalt... i'll let you deal with those details then, sound confusing and hard to balance!
But yea, i'm in.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:02 pm

Sweet, now that we have some people interested, I'm going to make the list of aircraft by tier. Also, there can/will be some specialty races. Such as all people in one aircraft, using sports planes, or a heavyweight race. Now, on to the list (Note: List is subject to change and it is encouraged to make suggestions)

STARTING BUDGET: $10,000,000

AIRCRAFT

TIER 1

PISTON

P-38 (F,H, and J) - $8,000,000
P-47 (C, D-25) - $7,250,000
P-51 (B,D) - $7,500,000
Spitfire (Mk.Ia, Mk.Vb, L.F. Mk.Vb Trop, Mk.IX, Mk.XIVe, L.F.Mk.XIVe) - $7,000,000
Tempest V - $7,800,000
Bf-109 (E-7, F-4, G-2, G-6,G-6/R-6, K-4) - $6,000,000
Fw 190 (A-8, F-8, D-9) - $7,000,000
F4F-3/F4F-4 - $5,000,000
SBD Dauntless - TBA (Undecided)
TBD Devastator - TBA (Undecided)
TBF Avenger - TBA (Undecided)
A6M2 Zero - $5,500,000
D3A1 Val - TBA (Undecided)
B5N2 Kate - TBA (Undecided)
P-39 (D,Q) - $5,800,000
P-40 (B,C,E,F,N, Tomahawk II.A, Kittyhawk I.A) - $5,900,000
Ki-27 - $5,000,000
Ki-43 - $5,200,000
Ki-61 - $6,000,000
Ki-84 - $7,100,000

TURBOJET

Me 262A-1 - $12,000,000
Me 163B-1A - TBA (Undecided)
He 162A-2 - $14,000,000
Gloster Meteor (Mk.I, Mk.II) - $12,000,000
P-80A - $12,000,000

TIER 2

AV-8B - $23,700,000
Harrier GR.7 - $23,700,000
A-6 (A, E) - $15,000,000
EA-6B - $18,000,000
KA-6D - $15,000,000
T-50 - $20,000,000
A-4 - $17,000,000
TA-4 - $17,500,000
L-39 - $18,000,000
T-4 - $19,000,000
AMX - $17,000,000
AMX-T - $17,000,000
Alphajet - $18,000,000
A-10 - $14,000,000
Hawk - $12,000,000

TIER 3

F-4 (B, C, D, E, EJ, G, J, N, S) - TBA
Phantom (FG.1, FGR.2) - TBA
F-104 (A, C, G, S) - TBA
QF-104 - TBA
MiG-23 - TBA
F-20 (A, A+) - TBA
TF-20A - TBA
JA-37 - TBA
JL-9 - TBA
T-2 - TBA
F-1 - TBA
T-38 - TBA
Mirage 2000 - TBA

TIER 4
EF-2000 (F.2, T.1, A, B) - TBA
F-16 (A, B, C, D) - TBA
F/A-18 (C, D, E, F) - TBA
F-22 - TBA
SU-27 (S, UB) - TBA
SU-30MK - TBA
SU-35S - TBA
MiG-29 - TBA
JAS-39 (C, D) - TBA
F-14D - TBA
F-15 (C, D, E, SE, N) - TBA
F-16C - TBA
Rafale-(M, B) - TBA
F-35A - TBA

SPECIAL (Loaned for racing, available for purchase after 5 races in the aircraft)
C-130H/J - $38,000,000
CC-130E - $38,000,000
AC-130A - $38,000,000
LC-130 - $38,000,000
EC-130J - $38,000,000

(Notes: All aircraft listed can be found in HQP/GAC the Birdfarm Pack, or Taskforce 58's Down in Flames packs. Prices are for fictional purposes, please do not gripe unless you think they are way off. TBA is a to-be-announced price. I will get on these soon, especially the tier 1's! If an aircraft is undecided, then it may or may not be available, depending on popular vote.)

TEAMS

You can choose a team when you first start out and join, however, the only way to change your team is to buy out of your current contract for $40,000,000 (once every 10 races, so people cannot manipulate this in later stages to gain an advantage on the track) and then apply for a different team.

Archangel Racing Ltd. has access to higher grades of fuel than the other teams. Add 5% more thrust to any aircraft you fly when in this team.

Eagle Feather AR has connections that allows you to get lightweight alloys that keep the same strength. Reduce your aircraft's weight by 5% when in this team.

Needle Point RT has highly advanced avionics systems and control surfaces. Add 5% to your Pitch, Roll, and Yaw rates.

(Note: If you have any complaints/suggestions/ideas for any of the teams or perks, please either post here or PM me)


UPGRADES

Level One Upgrades

Enhanced Spoiler (add spoiler for Tier 1) - 2,000,000
Larger control surfaces - 4,000,000
Increased compression engine - 5,000,000
Lightweight Skin - 6,000,000
Reverse Pitch Propeller - 3,000,000

More Upgrades Coming

Racetracks

We will be using the YSGP tracks from the 2011 pack for now, so that will give us a few different courses to go to. Link to YSGP 2011: http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... hilit=YSGP

We will not be using the aircraft (at least for now), only the racetracks.

Application Form

Please fill out an application if you wish to participate. It should follow a general format such as this:

Aircraft: XXXX
Team: XXXX
Upgrades (If any): XXXX
Remaining Money: $XXXX
Last edited by Cobalt09 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:08 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Crazypilot » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:14 pm

Looks like you've got everything figured out except for the maps. Placing ground objects shouldn't be too hard, because that's all you need to do to make a race course.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:54 am

Yep, just need to find out how to use the scenery editor. :? Also, some work is done for me by the tunnels placed by Mr. Soji in the stock installation.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:33 am

Count me in on any events. This seems interesting.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Crazypilot » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:12 am

Yeah, you could use bridges, those hangers you can fly through, the checkpoints from the YSGP maps on stock maps, lay them down on Aomori or somewhere else and you've got a racetrack.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by BravoTwoZero » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:23 am

Its a bit late but i'm in

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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:55 am

Crap, well, I'm apparently less than a simple-minded monkey as I have literally had no success in trying to make/modify maps for racing. But, if you still want to keep the ball rolling, then PM me with what corporation you want to start with, and what you want your starting airplane to be.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by NavyGator » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:04 am

Merely a suggestion, but maybe to get new racers into the field you may have to have different leagues.
You cannot race in lower league with a vehicle from an upper league, but the reverse would be doable.

In order to graduate into a higher league one must win in the lower one(s).
that way newbees would not be run over by the bigboys.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Lazer » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:23 am

Hey good idea. Have the "less-experienced" pilots have a training league if you will. Just so they can get the hang of air racing.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by UNpilot15 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:05 pm

I'm all for the idea! I gotta get my hands on a new PC first, though.

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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Cobalt09 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:59 pm

Oh wow, It's great to see this kind of a turnout! Lazer, I really like the idea of the training league, and that would definitely help newer pilots. Again, if anybody has it decided, PM me you're aircraft choice and team of choice, and if you can, get your aircraft .dat edited and paint the aircraft at the maximum.
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Re: YS Air Racing

Post by Flake » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:58 pm

I want to add my 2 cents.

In MotoGP, there are 3 classes: Moto3, which is 125cc, Moto2 which is 250cc, and MotoGP, which is 1000cc.

I was thinking of having a very similar style to MotoGP, but called AeroGP.

There would be a piston powered class, a slow jet, and a fast jet class, like above, Aero3, Aero2, AeroGP.

I've been designing my own concept aircraft to use for the GP class myself and I'm quite happy with it. Alas my modding skills of making meshes sucks...

In MotoGP, there is what is call "CRT" teams, which, in short, are prototype bikes. CRT teams have extra privilage like extra fuel and etc. I think we should do the same for the air races here to encourage modding.

The biggest problem I'm facing is circiuts. What would they be like? Would they be like the ones used by Mh3w's air race maps or conventional race circiuts but made 3d? I was thinking about a conventional circiut, but the track edges are elevated using elevation grids, to give room to move in in 3D. I'm thinking the tracks can be either closed loops or long trecks over mountainside and etc.

Most MotoGP races are 150km long, or about 21 laps. I think that's a good number. It takes about an hour.

I was planning on making a tuning program that would be hosted on the server machine, that you log into via a webpage and adjust your settings there, and that would affect engine power, turn rate, etc.

The two issues i see is lack of aircraft suitable, lack or interest, lack of appropriate courses, lack of accurate timing, and lack of danger. I love MotoGP because it's risky. You never know when someones going to push to hard and throw themselves onto the pavement. I think stall angle should be close to the limit here, and most corners will be taken at upto 15g with blackout on, making it harder to see around them.

Rest assured, I'm giving this a lot of thought, and I hope I can come up with a solution.
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