Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

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Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Shiny Rice » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:53 pm

After getting back to Assault Horizon a bit and play a few rounds, I noticed how many buildings there were on the map. When I compare it to other YS maps, they look places that seem that nobody's been there for a while, except for the airports. And where there should be buildings, in some maps, there is grey terrain, instead of elevation grids, or fancy, laggy ground objects. I know, there are some that are fancy. Does lag come from the computers that can't handle so many buildings or is it YS' way of dealing with things? Is that what prevents most of map makers from getting much stuff in their maps?
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by decaff_42 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:17 pm

I'd say there are several limiting factors.

#1 is the computer you are on. The better your computer, the better your graphics and frame rates are going to be. From what I've seen, however, is that a doubling of the CPU performance, might suck out a 30-50% increase in frame rate flying the same map, same area, same plane.

#2 How big the map is plays a big role in how the flight is. The philippines map is huge, and gives around 20-30 fps in the most detailed portions, which aren't all that detailed. If you cut the map down to just that section, you'd see a frame rate maybe twice that.

#3 Another map related influence on Frame rate is how close together the buildings are. If each one were an elevation grid and there were hundreds in one spot, there would be a huge decrease in frame rate as YSF tries to render them all.

#4 The Aircraft you are flying also contributes to the frame rate. The better detailed model, the lower the frame rate. This is part of the reason that the GAC and HQP level planes are still widely used on servers where multiple people will play.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by waspe414 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:30 pm

Scenedit is also not conducive to placing large numbers of buildings, be it elevation grids or ground objects. To make Helgoland, it took me two days to put down and position all the buildings.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by decaff_42 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:38 pm

waspe414 wrote:Scenedit is also not conducive to placing large numbers of buildings, be it elevation grids or ground objects.
If you mess around with child sceneries it can be done a little faster, but you have to plan it carefully. Styk uses them pretty effectively.

If you are doing something really unique like Helgoland, it will surely take longer and will probably be a better quality, but Creating several options to import helps speed things up dramatically.

Really it depends on the map maker and how much lag they get while testing the map.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Turbofan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:29 am

Cul-de-Sac PAC is very detailed, in fact even after convexnizing the map, sometimes there is still an FPS reduction. And the map is one of the smallest in YSFS. If I have the tennis courts, the mazes and that general area in the view in OpenGL, the FPS drops in to the 38-45 range, whereas it's a full 64 FPS if that area is not in the view.

Thing is since YSFS is polygon-based, the greater the number of polygons, the lower the FPS, doesn't matter how large or small the map is. I could make a map as small as 1 square mile but if I put in a hundred buildings in it only the fastest and latest PCs will run it, all others will end up crashing YSFS. So the density of buildings matters in YSFS. Soji himself states this fact.

That's why I decided not put many buildings on Turbot Island. Even in the full version I wanted the user to enjoy smooth frame transition, even with several aircraft in a replay. Not to say there are few, in fact there are quite a few buildings in there, but just enough to give that "visual effect" of a city and its CBD core. The gray polygons instead allow the city to "exist" without too many structures, and outside the downtown Mandiola area, I have scattered structures throughout to not make it feel as empty.

Using child sceneries like decaff said is also effective, I've used that technique in the Turbot Island map.

But the bottom line is building density/computer speed.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Gunny » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:23 am

Just a note here cause I would just be reiterating what has already been said.But when I create a scenery I try to keep in mind that not all of our user have the resources to obtain top of the line computers and graphics cards so I try to keep it as low as possible for these users.But sometimes I just overdo it hence huge lag scenery's.But other times I get it right. :D
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Airbourne » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:48 am

My maps on the other hand..............have a shit ton.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by decaff_42 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:51 am

Airbourne wrote:My maps on the other hand..............have a shit ton.
And I absolutely love looking at them as I fly at 5 fps. No sarcasm nothing here. Ur maps are awesome. :D

You also don't go absolutely nuts with them and have them at Helgoland density for miles on miles.
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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Shutter » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:57 am

buildings are for communists.

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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Airbourne » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:55 am

decaff_42 wrote:
Airbourne wrote:My maps on the other hand..............have a shit ton.
And I absolutely love looking at them as I fly at 5 fps. No sarcasm nothing here. Ur maps are awesome. :D

You also don't go absolutely nuts with them and have them at Helgoland density for miles on miles.
Well.........................back in 2009 or 2010 I made a map called "Lakefront Airshow" and it is exactly as it is named. There is about 1000 or slightly less ground objects in this map. I'm not sure if you can see but in the darker green patches between the lake and river, there are a shit ton of trees. It may not be Helgoland density but there are a lot of G.O.'s in this map. and incredibly I get 22.64 on DETAILED and 44.64 on LOW DETAIL.

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Re: Why map makers don't get more buildings in their maps?

Post by Taskforce 58 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:54 pm

If frame rate is not an issue the Hong Kong map could use a LOT more buildings too. You can't do the checkerboard IGS13 approach justice unless you look over the right wing during the turn and all you can see are roof tops.
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