Palm Security Hornet Discussion

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Nodoka Hanamura
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:20 pm

Alpha Star wrote:It's a great plane looks cool.
I thought I would add my bit to the conversation.
YSFlight is entering a new era. The fictional ace combat planes are now the thing.
The beauty of this game is the ability to make our wildest dreams come true.
If you done like it. Don't worry. The phase will pass like all others.
Have fun!
I'll also add - it is the right and will of the squadrons' modders and HROs, as well as modders in the community to drive aircraft development in a certain direction. If you want to see MiG-23s take on F-16As, by all means, I ain't gonna stop you - but to have others accept it and actively partake in it will take time and dedication to convince others.

Besides, like what Alpha Star said - these phases come and go. They're yes and they're no. They're in and they're out. They're - I'm quoting Katy Perry music again, aren't I?
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Swift » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:27 pm

xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:We all know why this topic is blowing up. We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight.

I for one am sick of the "MOAR AFTABURNAS AND WEPNS" war.

Let's go back to bad ass 1980's cold war jets that handle like pigs, where the manoeuvring tactics of the pilot actually mattered more than the ping.
I'm not being mean or anything by saying this, but nobody in this community is forcing you to fly this aircraft. like Zy said, the Omega Hornet has been around for a long time so it's really a little late to say anything. In all honesty this is just the style I go by, I like theming my addons after futuristic concepts and designs. This was actually inspired by the in real life Hornet ADV, the Grun low-vis aircraft actually has the tail decal from said Hornet. Don't get me wrong I love an F-4 Phantom every now and then, but like I said earlier, this is just my style. When you say "We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight" You have to realize, not everyone is going to like high tech fighter jets from the future, but that's what makes this community thrive, the diverse range of mods and ideas. Some of you may hate my designs, but others love it. The same can be said for older era planes, some people may love F-86 Sabre's and Mig-15's, some may also hate it. If you want to go back to that era by all means go ahead, but this is why YSFlight thrives, diversity . As I said, I don't mean to hurt any feelings or anything like that, i'm just trying to make a point.

Not naming names, but some modders enjoy certain time periods, one modder is awesome at futuristic planes, while another that i'm proud to be friends with, is into cold war era planes. I personally enjoy new things, it's not really a phase for me as I enjoy making things like this. We all have our styles and preferences, and we respect each other for our talent in making these addons possible for our community.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Coop » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:40 pm

xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:We all know why this topic is blowing up. We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight.

I for one am sick of the "MOAR AFTABURNAS AND WEPNS" war.

Let's go back to bad ass 1980's cold war jets that handle like pigs, where the manoeuvring tactics of the pilot actually mattered more than the ping.
I'll explain why I posted that original gif, as this thread shows I'm not the only one who has an opinion about this. I am all for the members of the community making their vision. By all means, go for it, like Swift said, thats what makes the community thrive. My vision is very different from say Swift or Nodoka, but that isn't wrong and I acknowledge that. My issue arises when creators change a few vertices and polygons on an already made airplane (in both YS and real life) and calling it an "upgraded version". It is like taking a map someone made, adding a few ground objects and changing the length and width of the runway and calling it a new map. Recently, it seems a surge of these type of "change some vertices and call it a XYF-17 Super Viper" type of aircraft are being put out. Everyone can make what they want, but from this side of the community, it is old and repetitive to pump out all these "new aircraft" that can fly mach 800, shoot 131 missiles at a single instance and fly backwards upside down all while shooting down the enemy. I think theses groups (Grun, Palm, etc.) need to, like flake said, get back to basics of dogfighting, instead of trying to created the .dat or model that can do literally everything. Just my suggestion.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Swift » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

:?
Coop wrote: I think theses groups (Grun, Palm, etc.)
so now palm is coming under fire for using a plane that has an HQP dat with higher engine power and TVC. I don't understand why just because they decided they liked the -28 that they should be under fire for using a plane like this.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by MD5Ray01 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:04 pm

Coop, like Swift said, if you don't like the aircraft, then don't fly it. And the jabs at both GrunSol and Palm were unwarranted.
Further, due to both the author's request, I'll be locking this topic until this can be sorted out.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:17 pm

Coop wrote:
xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:We all know why this topic is blowing up. We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight.

I for one am sick of the "MOAR AFTABURNAS AND WEPNS" war.

Let's go back to bad ass 1980's cold war jets that handle like pigs, where the manoeuvring tactics of the pilot actually mattered more than the ping.
I'll explain why I posted that original gif, as this thread shows I'm not the only one who has an opinion about this. I am all for the members of the community making their vision. By all means, go for it, like Swift said, thats what makes the community thrive. My vision is very different from say Swift or Nodoka, but that isn't wrong and I acknowledge that. My issue arises when creators change a few vertices and polygons on an already made airplane (in both YS and real life) and calling it an "upgraded version". It is like taking a map someone made, adding a few ground objects and changing the length and width of the runway and calling it a new map. Recently, it seems a surge of these type of "change some vertices and call it a XYF-17 Super Viper" type of aircraft are being put out. Everyone can make what they want, but from this side of the community, it is old and repetitive to pump out all these "new aircraft" that can fly mach 800, shoot 131 missiles at a single instance and fly backwards upside down all while shooting down the enemy. I think theses groups (Grun, Palm, etc.) need to, like flake said, get back to basics of dogfighting, instead of trying to created the .dat or model that can do literally everything. Just my suggestion.
Regarding the last bit - I think it needs to be known that Vic and us are going to be trading dats and trying to resolve this issue. Dogfighting is fun, yes, but it is not all aspects of Combat, such as BVR, Ground Attack, Bombing and the sort. Not to say you're wrong, you're not. However, to call only us out on the Similar aircraft is invalid. VFA-49 is guilty of the same thing with the Alis Mortis and B-70. However, I refuse to partake in a arguement over this, as we are both guilty.

I have flown the F/A-28 numerous times, and all it is, IIRC, is a HQP F-18 with TVC, and a slightly larger loadout, given it has weapons pods. We're working to move away from aircraft such as the current cygnus and move to other aircraft that are not OP.

Also, This aircraft doesn't just change some vertices. It's a total revision of the F-18 Design. If you were to fly it, you'd notice that.

I've made this post after it was locked because I was working on it beforehand.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet

Post by Midnight Rambler » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:35 am

This topic was a split from the following topic - viewtopic.php?f=169&t=9013&p=105325#p105325

By request from Alpha Star, we've moved the topic back and placed it into Military HQ so that the discussion can continue.
Alpha Star wrote:paging
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Flake » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:56 am

To clarify a few points:

1) This is a very nice addon. So let me just start by saying that I'm not shitting on the work at all.
2) My thoughts on the ace combat-ification of YSF doesn't mean that these addons shouldn't exist. Hell, we should have more. The ace combat era aircraft are very beautiful and they could attract attention to the forums, hopefully more members yet.
3) I do beleive that the ace-combat style DAT's and the traditional fighter squadron DATs aren't compatible. A great work around for this is a modified DAT that can be used on Servers - addon packaging of this nature is something I highly encourage.
4) Fantastic to see the original release post has been edited with clear and concise acknowledgements of the original authors. It's a great look and is much appreciated by me, hopefully by others on the forum also.

That's really all I want to say and see on this posts. Kudos Swift, looking forwards to seeing more of your work in the near future.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Monoceros » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:23 am

xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:We all know why this topic is blowing up. We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight.

I for one am sick of the "MOAR AFTABURNAS AND WEPNS" war.

Let's go back to bad ass 1980's cold war jets that handle like pigs, where the manoeuvring tactics of the pilot actually mattered more than the ping.
This is what put me off the last time I went on hiatus. Comments like these are detrimental to some who like to change up the boring, drab gray releases of realistic pieces over and over. It's discouraging reading these posts and it runs off members because they can't create something without being criticized for making works of fiction. I'm a fan of both fictional and real stuff myself. If this a thing, why haven't people complained to the 2ch community for doing the same? They do stuff that doesn't look like it can fly and no one says anything. As a fan of all types of aircrafts, new and old and stuff that never gets off the drawing board, this statement raises my eyebrow as to what some members really think about this stuff. Why do we all have to conform to what everyone else wants?

Seeing the MegaUltraGiantHornet, Harambe Fighter and Flying Potato were things I was happy to see than the same old F-22, F-16 or F-35.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Midnight Rambler » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:30 am

Monoceros wrote:
xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:We all know why this topic is blowing up. We're sick to death of the ace combat-ification of ysflight.

I for one am sick of the "MOAR AFTABURNAS AND WEPNS" war.

Let's go back to bad ass 1980's cold war jets that handle like pigs, where the manoeuvring tactics of the pilot actually mattered more than the ping.
This is what put me off the last time I went on hiatus. Comments like these are detrimental to some who like to change up the boring, drab gray releases of realistic pieces over and over. It's discouraging reading these posts and it runs off members because they can't create something without being criticized for making works of fiction. I'm a fan of both fictional and real stuff myself. If this a thing, why haven't people complained to the 2ch community for doing the same? They do stuff that doesn't look like it can fly and no one says anything. As a fan of all types of aircrafts, new and old and stuff that never gets off the drawing board, this statement raises my eyebrow as to what some members really think about this stuff. Why do we all have to conform to what everyone else wants?

Seeing the MegaUltraGiantHornet, Harambe Fighter and Flying Potato were things I was happy to see than the same old F-22, F-16 or F-35.
I think Flake was referring to squad combat, rather than general addon making itself.

See here:
xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:that I'm not shitting on the work at all.
2) My thoughts on the ace combat-ification of YSF doesn't mean that these addons shouldn't exist. Hell, we should have more. The ace combat era aircraft are very beautiful and they could attract attention to the forums, hopefully more members yet.
3) I do beleive that the ace-combat style DAT's and the traditional fighter squadron DATs aren't compatible. A great work around for this is a modified DAT that can be used on Servers - addon packaging of this nature is something I highly encourage.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Flake » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:38 pm

Monoceros wrote:All that stuff.
You make a very fair argument. I'll address:
Monoceros wrote:they can't create something without being criticized for making works of fiction
I haven't once criticised yours or DoE's work, just for one example. But I think MR nailed it by saying:
Midnight Rambler wrote:Flake was referring to squad combat, rather than general addon making itself.
Monoceros wrote:why haven't people complained to the 2ch community
Because we're fairly segregated communities. We try and get along but in the end we just don't talk to each other. It has the effect of what they do doesn't really affect us.
Monoceros wrote:Why do we all have to conform to what everyone else wants?
Fair point. I don't believe in mass conformation. I do however think we have a lot of ace-combat era aircraft going out that isn't really compatible with other YS addons (read: OP, gamebreaking, needs nerfing). Truely it's up to the addon creator if they want to "play by the rules" or not, but when you are releasing an addon for the whole community to use, doesn't it make sense to ensure it's balanced and the community will be happy with it? It's sort of an intrinsic marketing at that point.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by ZyreaxGaming_YT » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:53 pm

I would like to make a quick official statement for Palm Security. The future of our fleet is under private discussion right now. There is a good chance these aircraft will be downgraded to aggressor only and will be replaced by realistic aircraft both current and near future (i'm talking aircraft we could see in 5-10 years) in the attack and defense role. As stated this is all still under consideration and no action, besides conversation, has been taken at this time.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:32 pm

You should fly your own plane on the 49th server Zyreax. Sic and I were quite pleased with the final dat that's installed right now. I'll send you a copy if you like.
Nodoka Hanamura wrote: However, to call only us out on the Similar aircraft is invalid. VFA-49 is guilty of the same thing with the Alis Mortis and B-70. However, I refuse to partake in a arguement over this, as we are both guilty.
I take issue with this, but I will do so as respectfully as I can. I approached Darkness of Enigma back in mid 2013 because I immediately fell in love with his work. After discussion we both agreed the S-38 would make a great placement for Buck's old SU-33. I requested that the COFFIN be replaced with a proper cockpit, the paint scheme be changed to a digital style camo, and that it would get a unique name. DoE then added a bit more detail, changed the afterburners, made it ready for carrier ops, and of course added 49th markings. Regardless, he was changing his own mesh (caveat, Umaibow is still the base I believe, but it's so much different than his anyway imo)

As for the Valkyrie, yes it does have a lot less modifications from the Oranleed one. It does however have newly modeled engines, afterburners, (graciously donated from DoE) and nav lights from KSK. Oh and a horrible camo paint from yours truly.

I don't believe everyone fully understood what Coop meant in his statement. I personally believe he was referring to changes being made in the visual model to justify huge differences in performance compared to the original aircraft. Our two aircraft do not differ greatly in performance from the originals, is my point.

I'm not posting tonight to upset anyone, just want to throw my 2 cents in now that the Admins have kindly allowed us to have this discussion, which I feel is very important. Also, the 49th pack was created in the dark for a long time, so I want to clear up any misconceptions Nodoka.

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Last edited by Vic Viper on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by ZyreaxGaming_YT » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:38 pm

Vic Viper wrote:You should fly your own plane on the 49th server Zyreax. Sic and I were quite pleased with the final dat that's installed right now. I'll send you a copy if you like.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Coop » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:02 am

Vic Viper wrote: I don't believe everyone fully understood what Coop meant in his statement. I personally believe he was referring to changes being made in the visual model to justify huge differences in performance compared to the original aircraft.

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But to elaborate a little more, I don't have an issue with fictional aircraft. Just don't name it something associated with a real aircraft, cause you'll confuse people. Also, naming it after a real aircraft hints it being a more "realistic" aircraft, which was certainly not the case in this example.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Flake » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:23 am

ZyreaxGaming_YT wrote:Yes Please, can I have it?
You don't need to download or change anything.

Just join the 49th server and fly your plane. The server will set the performance accordingly.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:51 am

xX_SuperSic58_Xx wrote:
ZyreaxGaming_YT wrote:Yes Please, can I have it?
You don't need to download or change anything.

Just join the 49th server and fly your plane. The server will set the performance accordingly.
It'd be best that the dat be released to GrunSol and PalmSec as we are the only remaining operators of the F/A-28, and we push these updates ourselves to our aircraft so it is globally used. Quite frankly, I like the dat work you guys did.
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Flake » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:24 am

Oh I see. Paging @Vic Viper
Vic Viper wrote:Ring ring...
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:16 am

:lol: I had sent Zyreax the dat a few hours after he requested it
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Re: Palm Security Hornet Discussion

Post by Monoceros » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:58 am

Thanks for the clarification. That actually changes my stance. I know some of you haven't blatantly said anything to the degree to "screw off" with my stuff but I have before. But knowing my stuff is liked brings me a smile.
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