New things from Soji

News, announcements, updates, & more regarding YSFlight & YSFHQ
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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Neocon » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:12 pm

It's ok to have 14 frames per second, as long as the frames are correct and maintainable? ;)

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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Flake » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:34 am

Lol the UI is broken and I can't even join flight in any aircraft on any map without the game crashing. Great auto/manual testing Soji. Maximise mode is now fullscreen too.

He renamed SMALL_MAP to just SMALL which will be great for backwards compatability. He's also added a few "Racing" maps that were just slapped together with absolutely no effort.

Forget it. YSFlight Development died after 2011.

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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Kujo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:57 am

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To be honest, who cares about the development anymore? I question why this thread still exists if all it does is bring nonsensical and completely useless information to the table. Just drop it. Every single person here on this forum knows deep inside that YS has been broken since 2012 in some ways. I could care less if 2014 was at least some type of stable or not. Soji's obviously not caring anymore so just give up and use your time on something else. It's what I've said for the past three years. Use crap that's fixed, not "reportedly bugged and needs improvement"/fixing stuff that had no issue in the first place.

Wake up people jc :lol:

---EDIT---

Being the realist that I am, the more I look back at this post and the ones before mine, the more I question why we're still here. Why do we continue to play a game where recruitment and word that gets around, compared to other sims, is at a completely bare minimum each and every day that passes by? Seriously? I understand this used to be a great, free game, but to be honest it's so far from great the way it's been headed. Continuing to use one version of the game will very soon become old. We've gone nowhere as to the amount of actual HQ users in more than a few months. Posting rates at this point have been the slowest they've been for probably longer. The game has obviously already taken a turn for the worst and all of the wishing and believing that a better version will be released will never happen. Pay attention to the pattern he runs on, and also think that this is a pet project of his. That's all that this game is in the end. He's not some dedicated dev that sits idly by waiting for people's requests. The game will never get better from this point on and that's that.
Last edited by Kujo on Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:43 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Turbofan » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:30 am

I've been an ardent supporter of his but have to agree with the above comments. New features are meaningless if the basics don't work. And judging by his own comments he's not really out to fix the basics.

I will stick to using the 2011 version of YS Flight. I love the game and I don't want to stop playing the working version of it. When it comes to YS, if it ain't broke, don't upgrade it.
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Re: New things from Soji

Post by u2fly » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:59 pm

Soji Yamakawa wrote: http://ysflight.in.coocan.jp/main/e2018.html

2018/07/14

Vulkan

I've been learning Vulkan API for the last a few weeks. I feel that I have enough knowledge to port YSFLIGHT to Vulkan. When the doomsday comes, when OpenGL is no longer cross platform, I should be able to switch to Vulkan.

That's only if Vulkan gains popularity as advertised. I have a serious doubt if it will be well adapted though. The reason why I am worried about the Vulkan adaption is because it is not taking over OpenGL. It is trying to take over extreme low-level APIs like Direct 3D and Metal. I don't think Microsoft and Apple are happy with Vulkan. Apple is openly unhappy with Vulkan. It also takes over OpenCL, which gives nVidia a reason not to be supportive. If Vulkan takes down OpenCL, and the Vulkan itself fails, nVidia will dominate the GPU processing by CUDA. Those big companies, except Apple, are saying they support Vulkan, but they may just be pretending.

Already I see signs that Vulkan is buckling. Since Apple totally ignored Vulkan, they arranged a deal to get MoltenVK, Vulkan implementation on Metal for Apple platforms, open-sourced. But, it is only a subset of Vulkan. It lacks the Validation layer. Vulkan has too many knobs to control. You cannot tell if you are feeding correct parameters.. The Validation layer will tell you when given parameters are outside of the Vulkan specification. It is virtually impossible to develop without the Validation layer. You may get something working in your environment without the Validation layer, but your program may not work when you take it to another platform.

So what I have been doing is writing code on my Mac mini home, and the next day I test the same code on Windows on my office PC to see a bunch of error messages from Validation layer then only I can correct them. Why can't I debug at home? Because of Intel's reluctance in Vulkan, none of my ThinkPads running Windows 10 can run Vulkan. My ThinkPad X250 is just 3 years old, but it is too old to run Vulkan. In a sense, Vulkan doesn't run on too many integrated GPUs and is nothing cross-platform yet. Since Vulkan runs on those older integrated GPUs on Linux, there is no reason it cannot be done on Windows. I don't know what Intel is holding off.

The shader program of Metal seems to be less capable than SPIR-V. The output from the vertex shader ( varying in the OpenGL term) cannot be an array or a matrix. (Come on, Apple!) That is supposed to be a Metal problem, not a Vulkan problem, but MoltenVK inherits the problem since it is implemented on Metal.

Therefore, the shader that runs perfectly on Windows may not run on macOS and iOS. Because of this hiccup (plus more hiccups), Khronos is now talking about official Vulkan 'subset'. Aaaagh! What's the point of the standard?

By the way I think GLSL to SPIR-V compiler that comes with the LunarG package has a bug. If I write:

Code: Select all

layout(std140,set=0,binding=0) uniform State
{
mat4 projection;
// 16-byte alignment
vec4 lightEnabled;
everything works. But, when I was writing it as:

Code: Select all

layout(std140,set=0,binding=0) uniform State
{
mat4 projection;
// 16-byte alignment
float lightEnabled[4];
Everything after lightEnable[0] were zero in my shader. Only lightEnabled[0] receives a correct value from my C++ program. I checked every single line in my code, counted bytes to make sure 16-byte alignment, and could not figure why my shader didn't receive any value after lightEnabled[0]. In a desperate attempt, I changed float[4] to vec4, and everything worked. I found no explanation why vec4 worked and float[4] didn't. I hope it is a bug, not a mysterious specification that nobody understands.

Speaking of uniform, to set a uniform value in Vulkan, you need to first copy values to a uniform buffer, which is supposed to be already in the GPU memory, and then uniform buffer "written" to the VkDescriptorSet, which then can finally be bound to a binding point of a VkDescriptorSetLayout and become visible to the shader program (or pipeline in Vulkan term).

My question: Isn't VkDescriptorSet unnecessary?

Although I "write" the content of a uniform buffer to a VkDescriptorSet, a VkDescriptorSet looks to be just a pointer to a uniform buffer or a sampler. I don't see any point to make VkDescriptorSet an allocated resource. It should be possible to bind a uniform buffer or a sampler directly to a VkDescriptorSetLayout.

In the current version of Vulkan, you need two resources, a uniform buffer and a VkDescriptorSet to bind a uniform. (If you count a uniform buffer and a uniform buffer memory separately, three resources.) Since VkDescriptorSet is no more than a pointer, it should be small enough to be carried in a command buffer. Allocation of VkDescriptorSet is a utter waste. I hope the next version of Vulkan includes a function that directly binds a uniform buffer or a sampler to a binding point of a VkDescriptorSetLayout. For the time being, I allocate a uniform buffer and a VkDescriptorSet always as a pair, and my code looks to be working fine.

Anyway, I am hoping one of the two things to happen: (1) Vulkan gains momentum as promised, or (2) someone writes an OpenGL implementation on Metal (actually there is a commercial library called MoltenGL, but I cannot afford.) If Vulkan gets popular, I'm fine. I can continue coding cross-platform with Vulkan. I have already seen some problems, but it also is free from some OpenGL's problems. First of all, I appreciate its type safety. Every object in OpenGL was an unsigned integer. A compiler didn't catch if I was giving a texture name as a vertex-buffer name. It would take several months to a year to port my OpenGL code to Vulkan if I need to, but doable. Or, if OpenGL continues to be available on Apple platforms, it maintains its value and stay alive for longer period.

My worst fear is that Vulkan fails, OpenGL fades, and no cross-platform graphics API. I might look into Unity or Unreal engine, but those are basically for commercial development. I admire Unity's effort to keep backward compatibility, but still there is a license clause saying I need to pay some fraction of earning when the product is commercialized. Some of my research code have been used not as a consumer products, but as a part of the deliverables for industry-sponsored projects. Of course it is a part of an academic research project, but it is somewhat gray area that I don't want to step into. If I code for an industry-sponsored project using Unity or Unreal, I need to talk to an attorney who is specialized in the intellectual property laws to make sure there is no problem, and I don't have money to do so.

I expect Khronos would say something during SIGGRAPH 2018, which will be next month. I keep eye on what they say.
P.S.: As for me, firstly need separate code of simulator kernel from code of GUI client. Then fix simulator kernel (keep it closed source, but with open API) & open sources of old OpenGL GUI client (for community), and only after this think twice about switching to other toolkit, IMHO... :-/
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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Kujo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:56 pm

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Image

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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Swift » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:36 pm

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>Vulkan
>Can't tend to what is already there without f*cking it up

Just stop Soji, it's not funny anymore.
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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Doomsday » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:03 am

u2fly wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:59 pm
Soji Yamakawa wrote: When the doomsday comes
YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!
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PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

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Re: New things from Soji

Post by Flake » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:12 am

I see where he's coming from - a float of 4 bytes * 4 should be a byte array of 16.

But what the hell does this have to do with maintainability of YSFlight? Sounds more like a new coding hobby project.

"We need YSFlight to be able to use modern api's" No, we don't.

Age of Empires II still works fine on my PC for a 90's game, we can make YSF work too.

It's funny, whenever I see this thread bumped I think to myself "Oh great, this'll be fun".

Oh Soji...

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