Raptor vs Flanker

Aviation news and discussion for anything aviation related.
User avatar
Bombcat
Staff
Staff
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:08 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-14D Tomcat
Location: Virginia
OS: Windows 7
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Bombcat » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:50 am

The fact that the Su-33 is navalized is a huge disadvantage. Inherent issues include corrosion, reduced working space for maintenance, and the current lack of any really effective Russian airborne early warning aircraft - helicopters and ships are all well and good, but at the ranges the Su-33 is capable of flying, the Flankers would be well outside of their supporting coverage.

The Su-33 also suffers from being long out of production - the fleet is essentially worn out, and if I recall correctly, may well be replaced by MiG-29K's in the fairly near future.
The J-15, China's development of the Su-33 design, offers somewhat more potential and might be a bit more likely to face the Raptor sometime in the next decade or two.

Unless everything we've been told about stealth is complete bunk, I have little doubt that the Raptor's low observable design and avionics superiority would carry the day in a BVR engagement. Within visual range, things get a bit tricky. The Raptor has a definite advantage in terms of agility against most if not all Flankers, but last I heard, lacks some of the high off boresight targeting equipment which is now standard on many American and Russian 4th gen fighters. I honestly have no idea how stealthy the F-22 is against IR sensors, and so once the missiles start flying it might be anybody's game - that's my ignorance talking as much as anything else. But as long as the F-22's have the ability to engage BVR, their advantage should be decisive.

Just in case someone is wondering, this is not an expert opinion. I like airplanes a lot, and study them often, but that's about it.
[CAG171]Bombcat, Commander, Air Wing 171
Team Awesome # 23
YSFHQ administrator.

User avatar
Welshy
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Spaceships I see when in a K hole
Location: In a K Hole
OS: My Mind
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 220 times
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Welshy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:20 am

This is until Meteor comes into service, I mean its even being considered by you Yanks ;) METEOR FTW, did bits on Work Experience LOL
YSRepo Supreme Overlord
YSFHQ Elected Overlord
Overlord of VMFA-125 (CVW-171)
Previously Supreme Overlord of 323rd CAW
Friendly Neighbourhood Miscreant

If you see me post like this in a thread pay attention!
Image

User avatar
halberdier25
Senior Veteran
Senior Veteran
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:05 am
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Location: Pgh
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 198 times
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by halberdier25 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:03 pm

Last I heard, we're pretty content with our own AMRAAMs.

User avatar
Welshy
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Spaceships I see when in a K hole
Location: In a K Hole
OS: My Mind
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 220 times
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Welshy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:12 pm

The U.S. Navy may require a Meteor-class missile to replace the capability lost with the retirement of the AIM-54 Phoenix in 2004. A possible solution may be a ram-powered AMRAAM (ERAAM) carried by the F-18E/F Super Hornet.
From what has been discuss between myself and a defence analyist we came to the conclusion that due to the fact the USN need this sort of missile it will be either a modifyed Meteor or a Ramjet AMRAAM
YSRepo Supreme Overlord
YSFHQ Elected Overlord
Overlord of VMFA-125 (CVW-171)
Previously Supreme Overlord of 323rd CAW
Friendly Neighbourhood Miscreant

If you see me post like this in a thread pay attention!
Image

User avatar
Justen Not Relevent
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:18 pm
Favorite Aircraft: T-50 Pak Fa and Pave Low
Location: Probably 1337 hacking the 171st TeamSpeak server
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Justen Not Relevent » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:16 am

Bombcat wrote:I honestly have no idea how stealthy the F-22 is against IR sensors, and so once the missiles start flying it might be anybody's game - that's my ignorance talking as much as anything else. But as long as the F-22's have the ability to engage BVR, their advantage should be decisive.
I would assume its stealth against IR is moot once you get higher than cruising speed, so the question is whether or not Su-33s would be able to get close enough (probably not, as you said). In a brawl, it would likely be luck more than anything that would be the deciding factor. There are of course ways of diminishing a plane's IR signature (such as on the B-2) but I don't think that works so well on anything thats meant for air to air combat. Basically, IR missiles are the most effective weapon the Su 33 has against the F-22. Get on its tail and one could probably shoot it down... but F-22 still wins.

also on a personal note, the Su-27 is the best looking of the Flanker series. <3 241
Image
Image lolwut?
Shadow Hunters Marshal Aviátsii

User avatar
Dragon029
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 601
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:09 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-35A
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Dragon029 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:59 am

On the note of IR stealth:
The Raptor is at 1:37
Royal Australian Air Force
Per Ardua Ad Astra
>>> Dragon Addon Pack <<<
(PAK-FA, F/A-52, F/A-36, MQ-21)

User avatar
Justen Not Relevent
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:18 pm
Favorite Aircraft: T-50 Pak Fa and Pave Low
Location: Probably 1337 hacking the 171st TeamSpeak server
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Raptor vs Flanker

Post by Justen Not Relevent » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Cool... I still stand by my original statement though. While it might not have the same heat signature as an F 16, an IR guided missile could still take it out

The other thing to think about then I guess is countermeasures... no one really knows what the F 22 is packing
Image
Image lolwut?
Shadow Hunters Marshal Aviátsii

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests