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Opinions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:26 pm
by Phoenix
Looking at the aviation photos/videos topic, I was reminded of something I am not too sure of.

The F-35's flight characteristics are not great for a fighter, but the technology is great.

How good will this be as a fighter?

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:47 pm
by NosferatuAce
Well, based on what I've read, the F-35 is supposed to be on par with the F-16 on manueverability. Coupled with the state of the art technology that it has (disregarding the fact that the coding is in C++), I'm sure the F-35, if it gets the chance, will be a good dogfighter, not the piece of s#17 most people tend to label it as. As for a weapons load...well unless stealthy external pods can be deployed soon, that will be an issue.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:51 pm
by halberdier25
The F-35 will not be dogfighting.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:06 pm
by NosferatuAce
halberdier25 wrote:The F-35 will not be dogfighting.
Let me restate that. In the case that, as unlikely as it will seem, an adversary that is capable of detecting the F-35 appears, or if stealth is comprimised either by technological failure or by a part of the airframe disrupting the stealthy design, Im sure the F-35 will be able to deal with such a problem even if it is, however unlikely it may be, forced into a turning fight, and emerge victorious more often than not. Besides that it probably will not dogfight as AMRAAMs will be the main weapon of choice by then.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:14 pm
by halberdier25
See how many conditionals you put in that statement? The US doesn't care enough about its airmen to account for that.

Missiles are the main weapon of choice.

In a turning fight the F-35 will be just as capable as any other similarly sized and equipped aircraft with a similarly capable pilot.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:26 pm
by Shutter
Topics like this have a tendency to go straight to hell.

As a precaution, anyone who posts in this thread should make sure they think before they post.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:20 am
by halberdier25
Moot point. Everyone thinks they're thinking.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:20 am
by Taskforce 58
I have a clip of text with BBCode saved for these kind of topics...


This topic contains armchair aerospace engineering talk!

does not contain actual educated material nor professional opinion!

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:52 am
by Shutter

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:38 pm
by Phoenix
Oh, well.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:31 pm
by Gunny
This is my opinion and my opinion only not so much base on aerodynamics as job structure and the ability to carry out that job based only from a ground pounders perspective.
I am afraid as a VMFA this thing is a disaster waiting to happen as a carrier based A/C its VTOL was a selling point to the Navy.Unfortunately its VTOL characteristics are such that it cant vertically take off due to its vary high VTOL temperature ratings IE it melts thru the deck and also asphalt so now it takes off and lands just like an F/A-18 no gain here.
Also the main mission of any Marine Corps air wing is to protect its ground forces from all threats seaborne airborne or ground assaults.
And I think this gets to the point of the matter it was designed to do one thing well and that is to deliver its missile payload on target and GTFO.
It was never designed to loiter for any length of time on station to protect its ground assets.I ask you what kind of Marine Corps airplane is that?
A ground pounders night mare is calling in air support that cant even see you when you are directing his fire they will have to stay to high and to fast.
I mean it like they never learned anything from the F-4 Phantoms mistakes a missile only platform oh I forgot they gave it guns BFD they cant get down in the dirt and use what few rounds they have they may need them to fight there way home oh I also forgot we are theoretical suppose to have air superiority everywhere we fight until we don't of course.
Ok I am going to stop now getting far to PO-ed for this.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:49 pm
by Phoenix
This is no good for air supperiorty then. Oh dear me.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:10 pm
by halberdier25
Phoenix wrote:This is no good for air supperiorty then. Oh dear me.
What the hell gave you that idea?

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:22 pm
by Phoenix
Maybe against planes like the F-16, but not the F-22 or PAK FA. After "4th Generation" fighters (a bit vague, I know) retire and are replaced, the F-35 will be in trouble. Now it is good.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:24 pm
by halberdier25
Sure. It wasn't built/intended to win 100% of fights against 5th-gen fighters.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:25 pm
by Phoenix
Trouble is it will be used in many nation against 5th-Gen Fighters.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:14 am
by SvenPhantom
Says who? The CATBird was able to locate and jam F-22s, considering the opposing stealth aircraft will have inferior stealth capabilties and inferior avionics, the F-35 will enjoy a first look, first shot capability, which is absolutly vital in BVR combat. Within visual range, the F-35 will have the Aim-9x in the Blk 4, and there is no way you are going to dodge one, or at least be very difficult. UCAVs will probably take over the CAS role of the A-10s. All of the versions outrange the aircraft they replace so they will have longer loiter times, and can outfit external weapons if needed for CAS. But if Lockheed and the test pilot claims the F-35 to have great performance as they do, the F-35 would be completely.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:34 am
by halberdier25
The only 5-gen fighter that has been produced in any number is the F-22. The F-35 is also 5-gen, and is coming up in production. the T-50 and J-20 are either technology demonstrators, prototypes, or whatever, but are not production models (maybe the T-50 is, but they have a lot of work to do). "Generation" in regards to jet aircraft can be (more or less) as follows.

1 - Me-262, F-86, Gloster Meteor

2 - EE Lightning, Mirage III, MiG-21

3 - F-4, SEPECAT Jaguar, Saab Viggen

4 - Tornado, Mirage 2000, Su-27, F-16

4.5 - F-18, EF-2000, Su-30

5 - F-22, F-35, PAK FA

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:14 am
by Dragon029
I lol'd when I saw this title.

Anyway, here's my opinion.

The F-35 will be a good plane; not incredibly fast, not incredibly agile, not incredibly whatever, but rather quite the jack-of-all-trades.

The most controversial topic, even though air combat is somewhat of a special occasion these days:
1. APG-81, HMD & 60G+ missiles will allow the F-35 to fire at enemies first, at any angle in just about any condition. Is the enemy on your tail? Fire a missile anyway and kill them. Is the enemy doing J-turns and Kulbits on you? Fire a missile and watch them do the blow up and burn maneuver.

Yes, there such things as flares, chaff and ECM, but the F-35's modern and unrivalled software / avionics should be able to defeat these. Additionally, the APG-81 can blind enemy radars anyway, so if you were an enemy pilot in something like a PAK-FA, you might suddenly find your radar going haywire; you drop flares, chaff and then try and change your vector towards where you expect such an opponent may be coming from. From your 2'o'clock, you notice something unnaturally fast, you go to reach for the button for your countermeasures, but before that happens you get struck with a few thousand kJ.

2. Stealth - alright, I find this one annoying because it's such an unknown and classified subject; yes the F-35 is stealthy, more so than the B-2 and F-117, that said, the big topics are to do with the shaping that they've done between the X-35 and the production model and L-Band radars.
L-band is apparently the weakness of stealth aircraft due to the decameter wavelength that manages to reflect off the whole of the aircraft or something (armchair physics here).
The PAK-FA, newer Sukhoi upgrades and quite a few ground radar vehicles are currently have L-band radars placed into them as aids to the X-bands in the nose.

If they're powerful enough to detect the newer fighters, the result of the combat will be up in the air as countermeasures are deployed and energy weapons utilised.

3. Range - it has a higher combat radius on internal fuel than most aircraft, including the F/A-18C, F-22 and EF Typhoon. With external tanks its RCS is increased (I'm not sure if there are already, but I'm positive the F-35 will get stealthy droptanks sometime soon) but its range remains competitive.

4. Weapons load - it has 4 internal hardpoints, 6 external. External weapons increase RCS, but stealthy conform pods could be used if a mission demanded them, even then RCS increases, but at least it's more controlled. Regardless of the RCS is higher, it will still be lower than most other aircraft, keeping a competitive edge.

5. Speed - I'll admit, the F-35's kinda crap when it comes to speed. At the moment, the F-135 engine hasn't been pushed to max thrust yet in flight due to acoustic problems, but once those are fixed I'm sure that the current M1.6+ figure may be refined, hopefully more around 1.8+ if they're lucky.

And that's all I can think that needs being covered.

Re: Opnions on the F-35

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:24 pm
Look the F-35 program was put through by the DoD because it must have shown potential to be beneficial to the US military. The DoD apparently still likes the program for some reason. The F-35 all in all is not as bad as you guys want to make it seem. If it were really the way you guys argue that it is, the DoD would scratch the program because it's also VERY expensive. The aircraft may not be an F-22 in maneuverability or speed however it's good enough to make the cut. As far as weapons go they're ready to slap some new stuff on her anyways so we could see something compatible with the F-35 in the future.

The problem that most people have is not with the plane itself but with what the program is going to do to the USAF. It's a lot like Terminator except without all the self-aware crap. We are afraid of one piece of technology coming in to replace everything else we have. Especially when everything else we have has done so well protecting us and getting the good job done for so long.

My opinion is, I don't trust that the new programs should replace any existing until they've proven themselves in some sort of combat scenario other that flight testing at Edwards or Eglin. They need to send these new birds to Red Flag, which has already been done with the Raptor, and so that they can get a real taste of what real pilots will do and not some scientist thought up, computer enhanced, simulated bullcrap. I like the military now because it's versatile and has a wide range of aircraft to get a wide range of missions done. Using one or two is like the enemy's watching reruns over and over and eventually they'll catch on and start expecting what comes next.