The MMRCA Competition.

Aviation news and discussion for anything aviation related.
User avatar
SvenPhantom
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:07 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 13 times

The MMRCA Competition.

Post by SvenPhantom » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:31 am

The Indian Air Force Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA)  Competition is to replace aging aircraft in the Indian Airforce. The six main competitors are the French Dassault Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, The Boeing F/A-18E/F Superhornet, The Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper, the SAAB Gripen NG and the Mikoyan MiG-35. What are your opinions about the aircraft to India's needs?
Image
Image
If God had wanted the army to fly, he would have made the sky brown.
If God meant man to fly, He'd have given us bigger wallets.
If God had meant for men to fly he would have made their bones hollow and not their heads.

User avatar
Dragon029
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 601
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:09 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-35A
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Dragon029 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:27 am

Hmm, that is a hard one; looking at comparison tables on the MRCA comp wiki article, it appears that the best choices would probably be either the:

Mig-35
+ good T/W ratio, cheapest, high speed
- restrictions on engine purchases, low number of hardpoints short range.

Rafale
+ largest hardpoint capability, good T/W, decent range
- max speed isn't great, 2nd most expensive

F-16IN
+ good number of hardpoints, good range, top speed, decent T/W, best avionics of all choices, not too bad pricing.
- similar to what other neighbour nations have, single engine design.
Royal Australian Air Force
Per Ardua Ad Astra
>>> Dragon Addon Pack <<<
(PAK-FA, F/A-52, F/A-36, MQ-21)

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:23 pm

Mig 35 has Thrust Vectoring. But India does not want to rely on Russia alone.

Gripen has great versatility.

User avatar
Welshy
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Spaceships I see when in a K hole
Location: In a K Hole
OS: My Mind
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 220 times
Contact:

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Welshy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:39 pm

As A Brit I have to say that Typhoon is the best!!!

Nah kidding I think Gripen or Super Bug International.

Nick
YSRepo Supreme Overlord
YSFHQ Elected Overlord
Overlord of VMFA-125 (CVW-171)
Previously Supreme Overlord of 323rd CAW
Friendly Neighbourhood Miscreant

If you see me post like this in a thread pay attention!
Image

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:47 pm

A silly question, but with the Tejas entering service, the Su-30 MKI still in service and the FGFA not too far off, why is the MRCA needed?

User avatar
VNAF ONE
Senior Veteran
Senior Veteran
Posts: 2146
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:16 am
Favorite Aircraft: A-10C Thunderbolt II
Location: Indiana/Florida
OS: Windows 10
Has thanked: 230 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by VNAF ONE » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:12 am

F/A-18F Super Hornet - has ok pricing for a modern combat aircraft, plenty of hardpoints, medium/long range, high speed, maneuverable, strike capability, short takeoff and landing capability, works for carriers(not sure if India has any for this. I know they don't have supercarriers but...), two man crew, good combat and safety record so far.

F-16IN Super Viper - can't say so much about this one but, good number of hardpoints, fuel tanks increase range, multirole capability, similar to ally air forces, doesn't rely on communist nations, interchangeable parts even if they need to go beyond borders for them, can use short/medium runways, easy to maintain, good price, highly versatile and easy to modify for different reasons.

Yes these are American but I find these to be pretty good out of the bunch and I know very little about the others compared to these from knowledge. Dragon summed some of these pretty well anyways.
VNAF Aerobatics Commanding Officer and Founder - - - YSAS Member - - - YS Aerobatic Pilot
YS ACC A-10 East Coast Demo Team pilot - - - B-1B Razor Demo Team pilot
VFA-49 GhostHawks Commanding Officer
Image

User avatar
=*=ToPGuN=*=
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:26 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by =*=ToPGuN=*= » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:57 am

I feel either the F/A-18F Super Hornet or Rafale or Gripen, one of these three will be selected

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:40 pm


User avatar
Bombcat
Staff
Staff
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:08 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-14D Tomcat
Location: Virginia
OS: Windows 7
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Bombcat » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:55 am

I understand that the F-16IN is considered a dark horse in this competition largely because India's traditional rival, Pakistan, operates the type. While it would offer a certain value as an aggressor, you generally don't want to have to get close enough to ID the roundels in a dogfight.

The F/A-18 Super Bug certainly has a good deal to offer - a two man, a mature AESA radar system, outstanding multirole capability, and full carrier capability, if that should become an interesting factor. The F/A-18E/F also uses similar engines to India's indigenous Tejas fighter, and commonality is always nice.

The Gripen would enjoy similar or greater commonality with the Tejas, which might be the type's greatest challenge - it might be a little too similar to the new home brew fighter. Still, a good type.

Rafale has long been considered a front runner here, and with good reason. Multirole, naval capability, good agility, and the Indians have a long standing relationship with the French with the Mirage 2000H.

MiG-35 - India has a lot of MiGs, and has seen them up close and personal. This is a very uneducated guess, but I figure that if India wanted more MiGs, they wouldn't have gone through the hassle of a competition. The Russia-India technology alliance is solid, and with the PAK-FA, should continue to grow, but MMRCA is an opportunity for India to sample the best of what the West has to offer these days.

Typhoon - defiantly a front runner, and Eurofighter has pulled out all the stops in terms of potential options. People want AESA? We can do that. Thrust vectoring? Sure! Naval capability? Uhh...why not? Still, the Typhoon is something of a heavy fighter in this medium multirole competition, which might not be an advantage.

The US has generally been the least forthcoming about offering India full and independent control of every aspect of their fighters, and there can be little doubt that this attitude hurts their chances. Still, the F/A-18F is capable of preforming the incredibly neat trick of transforming into an EA-18G, or operating as a sort of intermediate type, potentially expanding it's value far beyond that which is readily apparent.
[CAG171]Bombcat, Commander, Air Wing 171
Team Awesome # 23
YSFHQ administrator.

User avatar
Animal
Animal
Animal
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Animal » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:38 pm

To expand on the engine commonality that the Gripen and Superbug share with the Tejas and Tejas MkII

Tejas uses a GE F404, the engine used by the first generation Hornets.

Tejas MkII, Superbug and Gripen all use the F414, an advanced derivative of the F404

The two engines are so closely related that they bolt into the same mounts, though Gripen uses a version with a relocated gearbox.

As far as the engine commonality angle goes I'd pick the Bug, as the engines are a direct replacement, and could with a little electronics engineering engineering work be plopped into Tejas. This commonality cannot be overlooked, as engine commonality with the then in development F-15 is one of the strongest reasons the YF-16 was selected over the YF-17.
They say that he feeds upon the tears of newbs, and that he spent an entire day feeding an effigy of Ricm into a desk fan. All we know is, he's called Animal.

Iceman
Core Staff
Core Staff
Posts: 1399
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:47 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-16C Viper
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Iceman » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:49 pm

Bombcat wrote:The US has generally been the least forthcoming about offering India full and independent control of every aspect of their fighters, and there can be little doubt that this attitude hurts their chances. Still, the F/A-18F is capable of preforming the incredibly neat trick of transforming into an EA-18G, or operating as a sort of intermediate type, potentially expanding it's value far beyond that which is readily apparent.
QFT. The MMRCA competition needs a plane who's worth goes well beyond it's original role, and the F/A-18F is great for that purpose. Also, with the proposed Block III version of the F/A-18 Super Bugs, this option is quite attractive. The added stealth (and more weapons BRO!) as well as the upgraded avionics systems should allow the Super Hornet to somewhat(!) outclass the other competitors.

Either that, or the Typhoon.
You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1
Homie I'll SQL YOUR syntax

User avatar
Welshy
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Spaceships I see when in a K hole
Location: In a K Hole
OS: My Mind
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 220 times
Contact:

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Welshy » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:24 am

Or the F/A-18 Super Bug International which has a centrerline weapons pod and CFTs
YSRepo Supreme Overlord
YSFHQ Elected Overlord
Overlord of VMFA-125 (CVW-171)
Previously Supreme Overlord of 323rd CAW
Friendly Neighbourhood Miscreant

If you see me post like this in a thread pay attention!
Image

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:36 pm

How agile are they when fully loaded. At an air show, only the Typhoon was loaded when doing aerobatics. The Superbug was there to.

And, has anyone heard anything about it? Last I heard, the Tejas was entering service.

User avatar
waspe414
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1254
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:35 pm
Favorite Aircraft: CH-136 Kiowa, Yak-130 Mitten
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by waspe414 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:33 am

Phoenix wrote:How agile are they when fully loaded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-_OWMDN64M
Actual UltraViolet
Image Image
Image
I stole your turnip. Now you must come and defend your honour. ~ Hank Green

Iceman
Core Staff
Core Staff
Posts: 1399
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:47 am
Favorite Aircraft: F-16C Viper
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Iceman » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:42 am

welshy wrote:Or the F/A-18 Super Bug International which has a centrerline weapons pod and CFTs
YOU MEAN THE F/A-18E/F BLOCK III UPGRADES?!?!
You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1
Homie I'll SQL YOUR syntax

User avatar
Welshy
Staff
Staff
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Spaceships I see when in a K hole
Location: In a K Hole
OS: My Mind
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 220 times
Contact:

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Welshy » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:45 am

On forum.keypublishing.com a version called the Super Hornet International was discussed
YSRepo Supreme Overlord
YSFHQ Elected Overlord
Overlord of VMFA-125 (CVW-171)
Previously Supreme Overlord of 323rd CAW
Friendly Neighbourhood Miscreant

If you see me post like this in a thread pay attention!
Image

User avatar
SvenPhantom
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:07 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by SvenPhantom » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:10 pm

Super Hornet International = Blk III Upgrades.
Image
Image
If God had wanted the army to fly, he would have made the sky brown.
If God meant man to fly, He'd have given us bigger wallets.
If God had meant for men to fly he would have made their bones hollow and not their heads.

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:16 pm


User avatar
Animal
Animal
Animal
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Unspecified
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Animal » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:54 pm

What did I tell you, Vandal?
They say that he feeds upon the tears of newbs, and that he spent an entire day feeding an effigy of Ricm into a desk fan. All we know is, he's called Animal.

User avatar
Phoenix
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:54 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Sr-71
Location: On that golden road to Samarkand.
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: The MMRCA Competition.

Post by Phoenix » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:56 pm

Animal wrote:To expand on the engine commonality that the Gripen and Superbug share with the Tejas and Tejas MkII

Tejas uses a GE F404, the engine used by the first generation Hornets.

Tejas MkII, Superbug and Gripen all use the F414, an advanced derivative of the F404

The two engines are so closely related that they bolt into the same mounts, though Gripen uses a version with a relocated gearbox.

As far as the engine commonality angle goes I'd pick the Bug, as the engines are a direct replacement, and could with a little electronics engineering engineering work be plopped into Tejas. This commonality cannot be overlooked, as engine commonality with the then in development F-15 is one of the strongest reasons the YF-16 was selected over the YF-17.
again
I'd pick the Bug
Thats what you told him.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest