Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

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JOKER1
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Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by JOKER1 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:16 pm

Admin Note wrote:NOTE: This thread has been split from the thread "Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)".

To provide context, here are two posts leading up to JOKER1's reply.
viewtopic.php?p=102620#p102620
viewtopic.php?p=102629#p102629

NajmiCreative wrote:Image
enhanced,upgraded XLP F-22 by @JOKER1 out now
anyway @Kujo,I guess you need to update your F-22 repaint collection now.. :lol:
I and zephyr don't arrow to posing my Onedrive DL link here.XLP link was dead,so I permitted from zephyr and release.
Najimi,you don't post here before you get our permission.
Your behavior is too impolite to zephyr and me.
If you contienue to post here,I'll stop release this pack or pass lock.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by JOKER1 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:19 am

NajmiCreative wrote:Image
enhanced,upgraded XLP F-22 by @JOKER1 out now
anyway @Kujo,I guess you need to update your F-22 repaint collection now.. :lol:
Najmi contienue to post my DL URL in spite of I don't give permission that post here.
I stopped release.If you want to repaint to F-22.Use the old XLP.The new model don't permit to repaint.
And I updated Su-27 repaint,but stop release too.For a while,I don't release my repaints and my original pack.
I'm very angry.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Vic Viper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:50 am

Our apologies for what Najmi did Joker. I see the admins have taken the appropriate action and removed the link to your account.

However, (and I do mean this with the up most respect to you and Zephyr) why punish the rest of the community for what he did? If you were never going to allow repaints than that is fine, it is your decision.

I understand why you would be angry, I've had addons taken without permission before, thankfully they were never released to everyone on HQ. But it would be great if you released these lovely raptors on your own, when you feel you're ready.
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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Flake » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:59 am

I think it's selfish to disallow repaints and it goes against the spirit of the community. Why? Do you feel that a 3D model for a flight simulator GAME is worth protecting? :roll: When people modify my work I feel proud that they do.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Patrick31337 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:04 am

To be clear, Najmicreative did not so much "redistribute" the addon in the traditional meaning of the word (uploading to another site for redistribution) as he posted a publicly available link from Joker1's site. The mistake was going directly to the OneDrive page instead of Joker1's web page.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by anthsco » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:14 am

As an artist I can understand how the creator of the pack feels.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Flake » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:11 am

Patrick31337 wrote:The mistake was going directly to the OneDrive page instead of Joker1's web page.
Yeah das bad. Always stay within the release parameters of the author.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by decaff_42 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:28 am

Okay I have heard from Joker and in the future, he wants to be the one to announce (and share links to) his releases here on YSFHQ. So if you guys see him release something, linking pictures is okay, just not any links.

Joker please correct me if I did not understand you PM correctly.
Check out my website YSDecaff for all my tutorials and addon releases.

Feel free to ask me a question! I'll try to answer it as well as I can or recommend a more knowledgeable member if necessary.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Flake » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:37 am

Personally speaking, I'm still going to say that policy is weak. It doesn't encourage the growth and abilities of our community at all and goes against the inclusive nature of being a member here. Seems like you're just here to brag about your addon ability, and that's a shame. We're not so elitist here. Your prestige matters not.

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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:47 am

OfficerFlake wrote:Personally speaking, I'm still going to say that policy is weak. It doesn't encourage the growth and abilities of our community at all and goes against the inclusive nature of being a member here. Seems like you're just here to brag about your addon ability, and that's a shame. We're not so elitist here. Your prestige matters not.
I thought it best to make this clear, as to help distance Flake's opinion from the mentality of the administration and of the community.
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Re: Spying (Addon development news found elsewhere)

Post by Flake » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:33 pm

Absolutely, I could not be more clear on that. Also I'm outgoing administration now anyway, if it makes anyone more comfortable :)

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Eric » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 pm

I split up this topic from the Spying thread as I think we do need to have a larger discussion on this, and the discussion was derailing the original thread topic.

Some discussion has been going on in mChat, review it here:

Code: Select all

JOKER1 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:29 pm
I stopped release XLP+ and Su-27 repaint V1.1.If you want to repaint F-22,use the old XLP

VNAF ONE • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:30 pm
:? Was someone trying to repaint it?

Patrick31337 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:34 pm
No. Namji posted a link to it in the spy thread and hasn't removed it after being asked to do so earlier.

Patrick31337 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:38 pm
I would suggest that Joker1 report the post if he would like that link removed more promptly and thinks it was inappropriate.

JOKER1 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:48 pm
Whether report that post or not,I won't contienue to release Najmi apologize to me.

JOKER1 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:50 pm
Won't contienue to release 「until」 Najmi apologize to me.

VNAF ONE • Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:52 pm
So he just needs to ask permission before he does it or is it because he did not take it down yet?

BARRACUZ • Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:00 pm
@ VNAF ONE, I think he doesnt want his works/mods to be shared freely. Maybe hes still working on it, idk? But i think its best to block/edit that post so tge DL is removed. We dont want to trouble the Japanese flyers too much... im still searching for that "JAPAN_MAP"

JOKER1 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:05 pm
JAPAN MAP is on the YS2ch BBS,[http://tamae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/fly/1459874813/]here's post306

VNAF ONE • Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:06 pm
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JOKER1 wrote:
JAPAN MAP is on the YS2ch BBS,[http://tamae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/fly/1459874813/]here's post306

Random_Flyer66 • Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:17 pm
posted a new topic: CHF Weapon pack in YS Support

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:53 am
Speaking of XLP... what were his modding "limits".. was it credit only or credit with permission from the builder.

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:02 am
I would say that the main reason I'm not afraid of clowns is because makeup isn't bulletproof.

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:02 am
Just to clarify my pack was based off of the old XLP, not the new one.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:16 am
Swift wrote:
Just to clarify my pack was based off of the old XLP, not the new one.
Then your fine Swift, that's exactly what Joker said, old pack is fine for repaints.

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:17 am
repaints. i'm talking extensive modifications lol

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:22 am
Well a Repaint is a mod - So As long as we give credit, I don't think he'd be upset.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:22 am
I'll forward a inquery to Joker 1, See if he can ask the XLP dev.

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:22 am
>_< i never thought of it that way

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:48 am
I'm considering starting to give Accolades to my Personnel (and to Members of the Community as well) for things such as Community Contributions, Air Superiority Experience, Flight hours - stuff like that. I have some examples here if people want to see them:

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:52 am
Https://twitter.com/Rathgrith027_SL/sta ... 6256683008 https://twitter.com/Rathgrith027_SL/sta ... 8363650048 https://twitter.com/Rathgrith027_SL/sta ... 1517255680 https://twitter.com/Rathgrith027_SL/sta ... 7537148928

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:17 am
I got a response from Joker regarding Najmi. Let's just say this isn't the first time the Japanese community has been displeased with the use of our aircraft. The Razgriz Pack (Both Umaibow and whitewolf) and one of VFA-49's Pack V Aircraft (from WFTC) are two examples he gave me.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:17 am
*their

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:17 am
*their aircraft

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:17 am
Sorry for the mixup orz

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:31 am
WFTC and whitewolf don't permit to remodel or repaint their model.Umaibow said that must say him before repaint.But they didn't.This is known to japanese YSusers,so japanese YSusers don't trust this site.It's very sad,but can't help it.Because someone don't read terms and copyright.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:47 am
...this is pretty much why I scratch model most of my stuff. I think the fact that most of us don't actually mind having our own work being modified and redistributed relatively freely here is what's causing the conflict here. because we tend to believe that crediting is sufficient when in reality it isn't for japanese mods; modders just take it for granted that "credit where credit is due" is enough.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:48 am
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NightRaven wrote:
...this is pretty much why I scratch model most of my stuff. I think the fact that most of us don't actually mind having our own work being modified and redistributed relatively freely here is what's causing the conflict here. because we tend to believe that crediting is sufficient when in reality it isn't for japanese mods; modders just take it for granted that "credit where credit is due" is enough.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:53 am
being a stereotypical asian where effort is what counts, I understand that pride is major determinant factor at play here. I admit, i take pride in much of my work and i honestly don't want to see sub par modders (not naming names here) taking my works and doing a poor repaint. and that pride should be respected. it doesn't matter if your view is "oh, why do u have to blow it up, it's just something on teh interwebz", violating someone's terms and conditions is as good as insulting him

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:55 am
it's like what TF58 originally did with his 747s. probably i should do that for my DC-10s as well

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:59 am
What, needing to ask permission? If so, then - well, so be it. if that's what you want to do, that's fine. however, I think it might be a good idea to resolve this by making a general purpose modding pack.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:59 am
Y'know - full of decent quality aircraft that can be modded at will as long as permission is given.

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:59 am
WiFTEC rule:WFTC機の編集・改造行為についてはこれを認めますが、それの配布については基本的に退けさせていただきます。=You can repaint WFTC addon,but release is fundamentally prohibited.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:00 am
Should be a good way for me to get up off my lazy bum and actually do something productive for once.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:00 am
JOKER1 wrote:
WiFTEC rule:WFTC機の編集・改造行為についてはこれを認めますが、それの配布については基本的に退けさせていただきます。=You can repaint WFTC addon,but release is fundamentally prohibited.

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:01 am
He says you can only use yourself.But don't release your repaint model.

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:03 am
Whitewolf said:当方のF-14Aはリペイント禁止=My F-14A is not allowed to repaint.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:04 am
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
What, needing to ask permission? If so, then - well, so be it. if that's what you want to do, that's fine. however, I think it might be a good idea to resolve this by making a general purpose modding pack.
ya pretty much. at least knowing what people are doing with your works is a good habit. also what do u mean by general purpose modding pack

BARRACUZ • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:04 am
Well as far as i can remember its alwats been general common knowledge to never release anything without the original creators permission. Its only recently due to the absence of many many modders that releasing and simply crediting has been "allowed" though not officially.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am
JOKER1 wrote:
Whitewolf said:当方のF-14Aはリペイント禁止=My F-14A is not allowed to repaint.
i don't think anyone has repainted them, only uploaded them here as the original download site went offline

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am
A resource for people to use for making mods consisting of mid-quality aircraft. something akin to GAC.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am
NightRaven wrote:
JOKER1 wrote:
Whitewolf said:当方のF-14Aはリペイント禁止=My F-14A is not allowed to repaint.
i don't think anyone has repainted them, only uploaded them here as the original download site went offline
The Razgriz pack uses whitewolf's F-14A.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am
what razgriz pack

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 am
viewtopic.php?f=168&t=8618&p=98762&hilit=Razgriz+pack#p98762 This.

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:06 am
viewtopic.php?f=168&t=8618

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:06 am
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
A resource for people to use for making mods consisting of mid-quality aircraft. something akin to GAC.
HQPGAC?

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:06 am
Not only F-14A,umaibow's Su-33,35,37,F-4.They need permission from umaibow.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:07 am
BARRACUZ wrote:
Well as far as i can remember its alwats been general common knowledge to never release anything without the original creators permission. Its only recently due to the absence of many many modders that releasing and simply crediting has been "allowed" though not officially.
and like i said, the general trend of most modders nowadays only needing credit

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:07 am
JOKER1 wrote:
Not only F-14A,umaibow's Su-33,35,37,F-4.They need permission from umaibow.
that's a lot of things >_>

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:08 am
VFA-49's F/A-32 is same.That is rule infringement

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:09 am
we don't use the pack anymore but if you want the link removed we can do it

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:10 am
NightRaven wrote:
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
A resource for people to use for making mods consisting of mid-quality aircraft. something akin to GAC.
HQPGAC?
True, but without the lack of appeal (to new users) GAC comes with.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:10 am
I suppose it's about time to do a cleanup here of packs that utilise models from various sources ^^"

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:10 am
We could use GAC as a base for it.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:11 am
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
True, but without the lack of appeal (to new users) GAC comes with.
HQPGAC is basically GAC + some detail. fundamentally they're both the same

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:11 am
The problem is now everyone can download VFA-49 F/A-32.Delete the pack or delete F/A-32 from the pack.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:12 am
JOKER1 wrote:
The problem is now everyone can download VFA-49 F/A-32.Delete the pack or delete F/A-32 from the pack.
will do.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:12 am
Add animations, a simple cockpit and add a little more detail. but I digress, I've been up all night.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:14 am
that's HQPGAC + animations. thankfully GAC has just a credit policy

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:14 am
unless i interpreted it wrongly

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:15 am
On a HIGHLY Irrelevant side note - The Kiwi in youtube TV that shows up freaks me the **** out.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:15 am
*shows up on the error screens

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:15 am
@ JOKER1, link to VFA-49 Pack V removed

JOKER1 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:16 am
Not only VFA-49,other packs have prohibited remodel addon.They are too many.Be endless

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:12 am
I find all of this rather distrubing. We have gone out of our way to respect other communities and now, after years of not hearing anything, we are told that we have been disrespecting the wishes of people who never said a word. Very disturbing.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:14 am
Do you want us to remove every single offending addon from this site Joker? That will take some time

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:16 am
Why are we just learning this now? This is very distrubing.

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:19 am
*disturbing

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:37 am
Patrick31337 wrote:
I find all of this rather distrubing. We have gone out of our way to respect other communities and now, after years of not hearing anything, we are told that we have been disrespecting the wishes of people who never said a word. Very disturbing.
It doesn't help when these people probably don't speak a lick of english outside a select few.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:38 am
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
It doesn't help when these people probably don't speak a lick of english outside a select few.
Well that isn't their fault and shouldn't be expected to

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:39 am
I never said that it was, Vic.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:39 am
I'm just saying - there is a unfortunate language barrier betwixt us.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 am
Not many of us here can read a single line of basic Japanese, let alone know a single character of hiragana/katakana.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 am
So we both, when it comes to communicating with one another, are at a disadvantage.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 am
Just making sure. However, it would be helpful if the readme's had more english, since their readme's don't even work on our computers. If there was Japanese text (and not just blocks) we could at least copy paste into a translator.

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 am
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Patrick31337 wrote:
I find all of this rather distrubing. We have gone out of our way to respect other communities and now, after years of not hearing anything, we are told that we have been disrespecting the wishes of people who never said a word. Very disturbing.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:41 am
I can agree that could have been worded differently, but with my brain running on fumes, I'm not suprised I didn't slobber all over the keyboard.

Ace Lord • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:41 am
Still, nobody has even made an effort to say anything about "stolen" work until now.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:41 am
But I digress, Vic has a point. At least running it through google translate at the very least would help mitigate this issue.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am
Ace Lord wrote:
Still, nobody has even made an effort to say anything about "stolen" work until now.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am
Yeah I got you Nokoda. I tired once installing Japanese script into my copy of windows, ended up crashing my machine so I had to restore. Haven't found another way to do it

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am
Tried*

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:44 am
As much as I like to play nice girl - Ace lord has a point. If the Japanese community had a problem, they should have sent some of envoy beforehand.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:44 am
It would have helped prevent this kind of thing from boiling over.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:45 am
Even sending a formal complaint to Eric would have probably sufficed.

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:46 am
I have a text editor that I can use to open Japanese files. It doesn't help when google translates it to a bunch of random words, though.

Ace Lord • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:52 am
I can't really fault either side here. YSF wasn't expected to develop such a large following and user content pool, so we can't blame anyone for not establishing a global ethics code or set of guidelines for modification of user-made content.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:55 am
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Ace Lord wrote:
I can't really fault either side here. YSF wasn't expected to develop such a large following and user content pool, so we can't blame anyone for not establishing a global ethics code or set of guidelines for modification of user-made content.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:55 am
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Ace Lord wrote:
I can't really fault either side here. YSF wasn't expected to develop such a large following and user content pool, so we can't blame anyone for not establishing a global ethics code or set of guidelines for modification of user-made content.

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:10 am
just putting this here as it was lost in the 3 pages of discussion: http://tamae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/fly/1459874813 << BBS to find the Japan_Map used on 187

NightRaven • Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:11 am
can't quite find it though, if anyone has better luck pls point it out

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:19 am
I am reuploading the NCA fleet pack with the L1049 removed. After rereading the terms of use for it, I discovered that repaints aren't allowed to be shared with the public! I didn't read it that way when I painted it or I would have never even downloaded it.

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:22 am
At the time, I read "do not modify the data" to mean not to modify the .dat. After the disturbing events of the last 24 hours, I suspect they meant not to modify any of it. Oh, well.

Vic Viper • Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:25 am
NightRaven wrote:
can't quite find it though, if anyone has better luck pls point it out
http://www41.atwiki.jp/ysflight/pages/3 ... d_075f7990 I think I'm getting closer

VNAF ONE • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:03 am
So, since the past is the past and anything released is out there, just know that for the future, please pay attention to releasing or modification policies. There is a large culture difference, and though it may be hard to translate, it is worth it to keep things like this from happening.

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:03 am
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VNAF ONE wrote:
So, since the past is the past and anything released is out there, just know that for the future, please pay attention to releasing or modification policies. There is a large culture difference, and though it may be hard to translate, it is worth it to keep things like this from happening.

BARRACUZ • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:09 am
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VNAF ONE wrote:
So, since the past is the past and anything released is out there, just know that for the future, please pay attention to releasing or modification policies. There is a large culture difference, and though it may be hard to translate, it is worth it to keep things like this from happening.
I think the admin team should also write a simple general addon release policy.

BARRACUZ • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:11 am
Also if anyone has modded any of the whitewolf, umaibow, etc aircraft I think its wise to try to contact them, if you havent. And just for peace of mind include a screenshot of the email response allowing modification

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:33 am
If you're on the forums - keep your eyes open in the recent topics.

Swift • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:38 am
posted a new topic: AGAC Advanced General Air Combat Pack in Addon Creation

Nodoka Hanamura • Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:42 am
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Swift wrote:
posted a new topic: AGAC Advanced General Air Combat Pack in Addon Creation

Ace Lord • Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:08 pm
@ BARRACUZ, Definitely a good idea. I had some ideas in mind, but I'll have to run them by someone on the Admin team after work.

Patrick31337 • Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:14 pm
I wouldn't go as far as a screenshot of the email, but keeping it for future reference is smart. Also, don't bleach bit your private servers. ;)

Swift • 8 minutes ago
Why not just make new ones? (in reference to Flankers and such)
I make this website.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:42 pm

We must convey to the offended addon creators that if they ever have any problems with an addon pack release here on HQ, they can PM anyone on staff or even Eric himself (last resort) to get the matter taken care of.

They have always had this option, even at YSPilots.

It doesn't need to be a long winded message, simply stating:

"Hi, I'm (insert username here). This addon release (insert link to topic) violates my Terms of Service. Here is my original pack and limitations (insert proof of pack ownership). Please take the appropriate action on your site to respect by TOS, thank you.

Or something like that, maybe even shorter.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by decaff_42 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:10 am

Part of the problem, as mentioned in the mchat window is the language barrier. On top of that, many of the readme files accompanying the addons become garbled and unreadable when trying to read them. The Japanese characters appear as random characters, while the English appears readable. Here is an example from the Legendary Wings pack.
Screen Shot 2016-09-19 at 7.31.43 PM.png
The long-standing assumption at YSFHQ has been that if there is no mention of modification permissions, then the model can be used as long as the original author is credited for their work. This is now obviously in error and we all need to take steps to correct mistakes and assumptions. Many modifications may have been done out of ignorance and not malice, with no bad meaning.

There are several things that can be done to correct this issue regarding permissions, which involves communication.

(1) Use a common license for a release (thank you Eric for bringing this up).
There are many licenses such as Creative Commons that can help everyone understand exactly what we can and cannot do with someone's work.

(2) Develop a database of addons and their modding permissions.
Using some very simple inputs a large database can be compiled of the various addons for YSFlight and their known Permissions. Categories might include: Addon Name, Author Name, URL to website where addon can be found (example: YSDecaff or CKP), Repaint Allowed?, Modification allowed?, Component use Allowed? (i.e. using weapons or wings or some smaller portion of the model(s)), etc

Other comments I'd like to make:

Communication, Communication, Communication. I cannot stress this enough. The Language barrier is hard. If anyone is trying to send a message and does not know the best way to say it in the language of the other person, please ask for help!!! Languages can be very subtle and when you try to say one thing, you may say something different. Google Translate is good for a word or small phrase. It is not very good for long messages.

Here is an example to help illustrate the importance of communication. I make this for educational purposes for everyone (including me).

Joker, when you said:
JOKER1 wrote:If you contienue to post here,I'll stop release this pack or pass lock.
I understood this to say: "If you make more posts like this in the future, I will take action."

Based on your actions and second post, I now understand what you posted to mean:
"Remove the link to my addon. I do not want this link to stay in your post."

What I understood to be "Do not do again" was really meant to be "Stop it right now".


I hope everyone can learn from this incident and perhaps YSFHQ and the Japanese YSFlight community relationship can heal from this as we move forward to the future.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by dbd000 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:41 am

decaff_42 wrote:Part of the problem, as mentioned in the mchat window is the language barrier. On top of that, many of the readme files accompanying the addons become garbled and unreadable when trying to read them. The Japanese characters appear as random characters, while the English appears readable.
Agreed. I would suggest a requirement be put in place to avoid the language issue. Maybe require all addons with a readme file to have an English version and (If wanted) a file in the native tongue of the developer.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:20 am

decaff_42 wrote:(2) Develop a database of addons and their modding permissions.
Using some very simple inputs a large database can be compiled of the various addons for YSFlight and their known Permissions. Categories might include: Addon Name, Author Name, URL to website where addon can be found (example: YSDecaff or CKP), Repaint Allowed?, Modification allowed?, Component use Allowed? (i.e. using weapons or wings or some smaller portion of the model(s)), etc
I really like this idea. It can be hard to track down every single addon creator's website or even get in contact with them at all. It would be nice if we had input from their modders, so we have the most up to date policies (not just the one's we find on old release pages). Nice one Decaff.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:21 am

It sounds like we are making demands, which I don't think it appropriate. It's their stuff and they have the right to expect us to be able to read their information. I use Notepad ++, a freeware text editor, to read their files.

It might be best, as somebody mentioned, to assume you need permission and ask for it unless it is plainly stated, as is the case with GAC and some of the other packs.

Despite the fact that I believe those we offended are justified in their offense and have no responsibility for our mistakes, they really should have told us as soon as they saw what was going on.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by decaff_42 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:36 am

Patrick31337 wrote:Despite the fact that I believe those we offended are justified in their offense and have no responsibility for our mistakes, they really should have told us as soon as they saw what was going on.
I agree with this. Those who posted without permission are at fault. In addition if this is a well known issue they have with us, this is the first I have heard of it. Them not speaking to us is also an issue.

I hope that we can establish better communication in the future.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:41 am

It would also be nice if any modders from the Japanese community responded to this thread, including Joker. We're sincerely trying to find a solution here but at the moment we're only talking among ourselves.

We don't mind if your English isn't that good. Our Japanese (Kanji or Katakana) is non existent. We would really love to communicate in any way possible.

Please, tell us what you think of these ideas we are proposing.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Midnight Rambler » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:55 am

Say for instants sake that the japanese community as a whole request that the pack be removed. How would HQ be able to manage that? It would have to be close to 25% of all addons on HQ may be covered by this if I'm not mistaken. Do we simply purge the addon links?
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