Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:07 am

Midnight Rambler wrote:It would have to be close to 25% of all addons on HQ may be covered by this if I'm not mistaken. Do we simply purge the addon links?
Closer to 75% of all our past addons I think (Back to 2006 at least). I think we can treat it the same way we would if it involved two members of our community, on a case by case basis. Lock the topic and remove the link, giving the OP a chance to sort it out with the original modder.

Of course, there's the case a modder will insist no modification of their pack is ever permitted, regardless if permission is requested. We would have to delete that topic and issue a warning to the OP, unfortunately.

That being said, after re reading your post I think you're referring to past offenses Mid? That gets more messy. (Another reason I'd love it if several members of their community would chime in)
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:15 am

May I suggest that there be some kind of "admin" for communicating with non-English speaking communities? That would end the problem.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:24 am

Vic Viper wrote:(Another reason I'd love it if several members of their community would chime in)
And there is probably our biggest problem. We're operating under a limited amount of information from Joker1. About a year ago, someone (I think it was Joker1) mentioned some issues and we tried to get communication started with the Japanese community and it went nowhere.

I doubt the number of addons on our site that violate terms of use is really significant. For example, most of the popular collection packs are clearly marked to cite the original author when releasing a modified/painted version.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:28 am

Well, I can try to talk to them (I'm Japanese) , but I need the whole picture of this situation. But, it will be nice if we have a talk with other communities.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:32 am

Patrick31337 wrote:I doubt the number of addons on our site that violate terms of use is really significant.
Not directly. But I wonder what they think of using parts. Do we know if whitewolf allows his flares to be used? Almost everyone started using them (I include myself in there)
Patrick31337 wrote:About a year ago, someone (I think it was Joker1) mentioned some issues and we tried to get communication started with the Japanese community and it went nowhere.
Yeah I remember that. Apparently the 171st and the 49th were at fault for something. What exactly? Wish we'd been told. I was really curious to see how two polar opposite squadrons could be partners in crime :lol:
KM6BZH wrote:Well, I can try to talk to them (I'm Japanese) , but I need the whole picture of this situation. But, it will be nice if we have a talk with other communities.
Could you see if they're responding to us on their forum? This whole thing is really starting to trigger some deja vu. Pat, you're right again.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:44 am

Vic Viper wrote:Could you see if they're responding to us on their forum? This whole thing is really starting to trigger some deja vu.
Will try. Maybe I should get people from Japanese communities to sign up at YSFHQ. That would make stuff easier.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Midnight Rambler » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:46 am

Vic Viper wrote:
Midnight Rambler wrote:It would have to be close to 25% of all addons on HQ may be covered by this if I'm not mistaken. Do we simply purge the addon links?
Closer to 75% of all our past addons I think (Back to 2006 at least). I think we can treat it the same way we would if it involved two members of our community, on a case by case basis. Lock the topic and remove the link, giving the OP a chance to sort it out with the original modder.

Of course, there's the case a modder will insist no modification of their pack is ever permitted, regardless if permission is requested. We would have to delete that topic and issue a warning to the OP, unfortunately.

That being said, after re reading your post I think you're referring to past offenses Mid? That gets more messy. (Another reason I'd love it if several members of their community would chime in)
Yeah my initial figure was very reserved, but if we encompass the entire japanese community addons that have been used then close to 85% of all YS models.

Yep correct Vic. What would happen in all previously released addons, such as the older 49th packs for instance (that i helped make), were requested to be removed. I can't see how we would cope with that as a community when addon volume is one of our selling points.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:53 am

Well I believe the link to the F/A-32C is gone, NR took care of that request by Joker. That was Buck's old personal plane all the way back in 2008. He didn't mention any others (probably forgot at the time)

I think we can cope as a community. For instance, given enough time, Darkness of Enigma could give us some face melting high quality meshes, either ported from free flight sims or scratch built himself. If he ever gets the time though, I wouldn't put him under that kind of pressure.

He isn't the only one though. We have a few modders here who are showing their scratch built awesomeness. Looking at YOU Decaff..and Night Raven. Sorry if I missed a few, but you know who you are.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:01 am

Well, but first, we gotta talk to them about this issue. Now, good night.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:11 am

Vic Viper wrote:That was Buck's old personal plane all the way back in 2008.
Wow. So this has been going on for at least 8 years with nothing being reported? Very disturbing. A little too disturbing, if you ask me.
Vic Viper wrote:Yeah I remember that. Apparently the 171st and the 49th were at fault for something. What exactly?
I think they were violating some server rules concerning their reaction to rule breakers. I don't know if it was every fully explained.
Midnight Rambler wrote:Yeah my initial figure was very reserved, but if we encompass the entire japanese community addons that have been used then close to 85% of all YS models.
If the base model was in one of the popular collection packs, it is likely covered by the "cite the author" rule that most of them have clearly stated in English.
KM6BZH wrote:Maybe I should get people from Japanese communities to sign up at YSFHQ.
That wouldn't be a bad idea. We need more than just one or two people who speak both languages. Google Translate is worthless.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by dbd000 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:01 am

Vic Viper wrote:It would also be nice if any modders from the Japanese community responded to this thread, including Joker. We're sincerely trying to find a solution here but at the moment we're only talking among ourselves.

We don't mind if your English isn't that good. Our Japanese (Kanji or Katakana) is non existent. We would really love to communicate in any way possible.

Please, tell us what you think of these ideas we are proposing.
Translated version of this post:
日本人コミュニティからの任意の改造マニアがジョーカーを含むこのスレッドに答えた場合にもいいだろう。私たちは心からここに解決策を見つけるためにしようとしているが、現時点で我々は自分自身の中で話をしています。

あなたの英語は非常に良いではない場合我々は気にしません。私たちの日本語(漢字またはカタカナ)がかなり悪いです。私たちは本当に可能な任意の方法で通信したいと思います。

、あなたは私たちが提案されているこれらのアイデアをどう思うかを教えてください。

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:11 am

dbd000 wrote:
Vic Viper wrote:It would also be nice if any modders from the Japanese community responded to this thread, including Joker. We're sincerely trying to find a solution here but at the moment we're only talking among ourselves.

We don't mind if your English isn't that good. Our Japanese (Kanji or Katakana) is non existent. We would really love to communicate in any way possible.

Please, tell us what you think of these ideas we are proposing.
Translated version of this post:
日本人コミュニティからの任意の改造マニアがジョーカーを含むこのスレッドに答えた場合にもいいだろう。私たちは心からここに解決策を見つけるためにしようとしているが、現時点で我々は自分自身の中で話をしています。

あなたの英語は非常に良いではない場合我々は気にしません。私たちの日本語(漢字またはカタカナ)がかなり悪いです。私たちは本当に可能な任意の方法で通信したいと思います。

、あなたは私たちが提案されているこれらのアイデアをどう思うかを教えてください。
Dbd, where did you get this translation from?
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by dbd000 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:20 am

Nodoka Hanamura wrote:
dbd000 wrote:
Vic Viper wrote:It would also be nice if any modders from the Japanese community responded to this thread, including Joker. We're sincerely trying to find a solution here but at the moment we're only talking among ourselves.

We don't mind if your English isn't that good. Our Japanese (Kanji or Katakana) is non existent. We would really love to communicate in any way possible.

Please, tell us what you think of these ideas we are proposing.
Translated version of this post:
日本人コミュニティからの任意の改造マニアがジョーカーを含むこのスレッドに答えた場合にもいいだろう。私たちは心からここに解決策を見つけるためにしようとしているが、現時点で我々は自分自身の中で話をしています。

あなたの英語は非常に良いではない場合我々は気にしません。私たちの日本語(漢字またはカタカナ)がかなり悪いです。私たちは本当に可能な任意の方法で通信したいと思います。

、あなたは私たちが提案されているこれらのアイデアをどう思うかを教えてください。
Dbd, where did you get this translation from?
Google Translate? I tried to make sure I got it as close as I could to what it should be. I'm not 100% sure it's right but it's all I got.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by JOKER1 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:49 am

The easiest way to solution of the problem.That is so simple.

1.If you want to repaint addon which is prohibited to repaint.You ask the addon producer to permission to repaint.

As far as I know

ORANLEED COLLECTION page'S 再配布コーナー←here's addon have to permission from producer.(for example,Umaibow's Wings Museum )

E.E.E.(X-02,XFA-27....)
SAXP
SAP(PAK-FA,DRAKEN....)
Grenium GRESP_F-16 series

maybe others too

If you gave the permission to repaint from producer,you can repaint the model.
The way to contact to producer is find yourself.(twitter or site's e-mail addres or BBS or various)

Some producers are already missing.If you can't find producer,you have to give up to repaint.

And prohibited to repaint addon.You must follow the rule.

whitewolf's F-14A
WFTC


CEP and OCP are can repaint.
CEP and OCP have to write the credit.And some OCP's plane can't repaint.


2.If the download link dead,you don't reupload yourself.
The copyright is belong to the producer.If you reupload and release DL URL.It is robbery.Strictly speaking it is crime.
(My XLP+ was I asked to Zephyr and gave permission to release.But I saw here was gave permission?Maybe not isn't it?)

3.Don't paste das DL link.
Before this Najmi paste my DL link.That is very impolite to producer.If you want to announce the release information.
You can announce the producer's web site URL.But don't das link.(Now Najmi still not apologize to me.I’m fed up with him.....)


And this is may not I Interrupt a conversation.......Someone use 3D model from ACE COMBAT ASSAULT HORIZON don't you??????I know who use.I saw same 3D model(I thought this was wrong so I deleted the file)
This is not good.....but I don't affect the issue and depending on your conscience.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Barracuz » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:19 am

Here's oranleeds modification policy!
MODIFICATION
1. The aircraft in OCP, OHP, collection
   Anyone can modify and pubulish modyfied plane at anywhere subject to declare the name of original author or the name of the pack which include original plane.
2. The plane in 再配布コーナー
   It is strictly profibited that anyone publish any modified plane without approval of the author.
He still active so maybe someone from the admin team can contact him to try to allow the already released add-ons to just stay as is and that any future modification will follow proper procedures for release? (Hopefully no-one has to delete posts and spend time getting it off their systems)

http://mrsandj.sakura.ne.jp/ht/oranleed ... aizou.html



JOKER1 wrote:And this is may not I Interrupt a conversation.......Someone use 3D model from ACE COMBAT ASSAULT HORIZON don't you??????I know who use.I saw same 3D model(I thought this was wrong so I deleted the file)
This is not good.....but I don't affect the issue and depending on your conscience.

Ok there are hundreds of 3d model sharing sites out there that share their creations under a creative commons license for free. But if you think there is a problem list the aircraft/mods you think are being released illegally and we will investigate.

Also ask your members if they think their models have been released without permission, create a list and share it here so we can take action to fix the problems.

decaff was right shoulda read that text twice :oops: this why were having a problem in the first place
Last edited by Barracuz on Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by decaff_42 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:23 am

Actually, Barracruz, you are wrong about Oranleed's policy. It is as Joker stated.
Check out my website YSDecaff for all my tutorials and addon releases.

Feel free to ask me a question! I'll try to answer it as well as I can or recommend a more knowledgeable member if necessary.

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Re: Joker's repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by NightRaven » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:51 am

Let me clarify this.

Most of the stuff from Oranleed like OCP and OHP are free repaint policies, just credit the original modders (as the packs are collections of people's works). Everything on CEP except Buta Pack follows the same policy. However, in Oranleed's reupload corner, nothing can be modified for release. This includes Umailbow's and Gre's aircraft.

Also renamed topic.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Midnight Rambler » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:58 pm

JOKER1 wrote:The easiest way to solution of the problem.That is so simple.

1.If you want to repaint addon which is prohibited to repaint.You ask the addon producer to permission to repaint.

As far as I know

ORANLEED COLLECTION page'S 再配布コーナー←here's addon have to permission from producer.(for example,Umaibow's Wings Museum )

E.E.E.(X-02,XFA-27....)
SAXP
SAP(PAK-FA,DRAKEN....)
Grenium GRESP_F-16 series

maybe others too

If you gave the permission to repaint from producer,you can repaint the model.
The way to contact to producer is find yourself.(twitter or site's e-mail addres or BBS or various)

Some producers are already missing.If you can't find producer,you have to give up to repaint.

And prohibited to repaint addon.You must follow the rule.

whitewolf's F-14A
WFTC


CEP and OCP are can repaint.
CEP and OCP have to write the credit.And some OCP's plane can't repaint.


2.If the download link dead,you don't reupload yourself.
The copyright is belong to the producer.If you reupload and release DL URL.It is robbery.Strictly speaking it is crime.
(My XLP+ was I asked to Zephyr and gave permission to release.But I saw here was gave permission?Maybe not isn't it?)

3.Don't paste das DL link.
Before this Najmi paste my DL link.That is very impolite to producer.If you want to announce the release information.
You can announce the producer's web site URL.But don't das link.(Now Najmi still not apologize to me.I’m fed up with him.....)


And this is may not I Interrupt a conversation.......Someone use 3D model from ACE COMBAT ASSAULT HORIZON don't you??????I know who use.I saw same 3D model(I thought this was wrong so I deleted the file)
This is not good.....but I don't affect the issue and depending on your conscience.
Hi Joker.

Thanks for the post and information as well as bringing the issue to attention.

Just to clarify something. Why is this suddenly being discussed with the community while it has, I assume, to be a known offence for such a long time? Why has it taken so long for someone to mention it to the English community?

I personally think that we have fairly strict modeling restrictions and etiquette which have been enforced for a long time. How was this missed for so long, why didn't it get mentioned before?
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:44 pm

JOKER1 wrote:And this is may not I Interrupt a conversation.......Someone use 3D model from ACE COMBAT ASSAULT HORIZON don't you??????I know who use.I saw same 3D model(I thought this was wrong so I deleted the file)
This is not good.....but I don't affect the issue and depending on your conscience.
No offense Joker-san, but I doubt Namco Bandai wouldn't care about some two-bit community consisting of both you guys and us using their models - the legal cost-benefit would be negative for all parties involved.

I have a more clear list of what Japanese developers require what, ranging from Crediting them, asking permission and not allowed from Joker-san, If he's okay with me releasing the PM with them, I'll post it here.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:28 pm

Nodoka Hanamura wrote:No offense Joker, but I doubt Namco Bandai wouldn't care about some two-bit community consisting of both you and us using their models - the legal cost-benefit would be negative for all parties involved.
Corporate may not care, but the original artist they hired might. Something tells me they don't scratch build though, mainly hiring artists for the textures (I'll search for proof of this and where AC Horizon got their models from)
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:I have a more clear list of what Japanese developers require what, ranging from Crediting them, asking permission and not allowed.
Yes, this works. Thank you Joker.

What Najmi did was called deep linking. No it's not illegal (anywhere) but it can be rude and go against net etiquette. I wish Najmi and Joker would message each other directly and make nice, so we can put a bit of this behind us.

And Joker, we still would like to know why almost ten years have gone by without any complaints being made, either directly to those who made the repaints or to the staff of YSP/YSFHQ. Yes, it's true we should of done a better job understanding your (plural) policies, but we need to communicate with eachother's communities more freely.

It's a bit disturbing to find out (I think I speak for all my fellow HQ members here) that we're universally despised over in the Japanese community.
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