Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:54 pm

I have some ideas for new rules, that I offer for consideration by those with the authority to implement them, for the addons release section that will not cause a major inconvenience, will insure domestic and international tranquility, will make modders accountable for respecting original authors, and will blow everyone's minds. :lol:

1. When releasing a modification, link to the original page so that the terms can be seen by everyone.
2. If the original model is no longer available, provide documentation that the modification was allowed.
3. If permission was required for release, note that it was given.

I also suggest a standard form be created to make this process easier and more uniform, although that isn't really of great importance.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:00 pm

Well if no one else runs for Modding Section Admin, this will be our job :lol:

I'm all for it, although we'll require Eric's help to implement the form.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Swift » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:08 pm

JOKER1 wrote: And this is may not I Interrupt a conversation.......Someone use 3D model from ACE COMBAT ASSAULT HORIZON don't you??????I know who use.I saw same 3D model(I thought this was wrong so I deleted the file)
This is not good.....but I don't affect the issue and depending on your conscience.
Then i guess you should ban everyone in Vector Thrust and various other flight sims for doing the same thing. Popping off with something like that is counter productive to the argument. I'm sure you don't mind the XR-45 or the Fenrir right? They were converted from ACX. Think of all the addons this community has seen, Ace Combat, Armored Core, HAWX. If Namco had an issue with Ctrl's Extra Fictitious Pack containing a model of White Glint, or D.O.E having the Shinden or the Fenrir, i'm pretty sure they'd have raised it by now.

You're expecting people following a freeware game with freeware mods to treat everything as if we have to pay a price for it. The average person who wants to mod would look at this and walk away because it wouldn't be worth jumping through the hoops that are supposedly set. What I mean by that is... Obviously the language barrier exists, but you need to realize not everyone is going to go through the effort of finding a way to decrypt a readme file that contains very little readable content. Don't get me wrong i'd love a peaceful solution to the problem, but It's my humble opinion that a reality check is needed on the part of the Japanese modding community.






here's hoping i don't sound like a bumbling idiot either

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by ksh » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:49 pm

Patrick31337 wrote:I have some ideas for new rules, that I offer for consideration by those with the authority to implement them, for the addons release section that will not cause a major inconvenience, will insure domestic and international tranquility, will make modders accountable for respecting original authors, and will blow everyone's minds. :lol:

1. When releasing a modification, link to the original page so that the terms can be seen by everyone.
2. If the original model is no longer available, provide documentation that the modification was allowed.
3. If permission was required for release, note that it was given.

I also suggest a standard form be created to make this process easier and more uniform, although that isn't really of great importance.
i would like to add one more if you dont mind pat...
how about?
4. no modifying repaits...only repaiting or modifying the original so that the original creator does not get lost in the credits, and the copyright rules are respected
does this make sense? sorry probly not explaining what i want to say properly. :oops:

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:59 pm

ksh wrote:no modifying repaits...only repaiting or modifying the original so that the original creator does not get lost in the credits, and the copyright rules are respected
does this make sense? sorry probly not explaining what i want to say properly.
That makes perfect sense the way you typed it. I would agree for basic repaints, but in the case of models that were also modified I think it should be fine under the condition that the original author and the second party are both cited and their roles made clear. I wouldn't want to add a rule that creates a situation where there is a gray area. What is a basic repaint and what is a modification?

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by ksh » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Patrick31337 wrote:What is a basic repaint and what is a modification?
well i guess a repaint would be giving new colours to a model but the shape or performance will not be affect of the model. And modification would be changing the shape and/or performance of the model. :geek:

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:20 pm

dbd000 wrote:日本人コミュニティからの任意の改造マニアがジョーカーを含むこのスレッドに答えた場合にもいいだろう。私たちは心からここに解決策を見つけるためにしようとしているが、現時点で我々は自分自身の中で話をしています。あなたの英語は非常に良いではない場合我々は気にしません。私たちの日本語(漢字またはカタカナ)がかなり悪いです。私たちは本当に可能な任意の方法で通信したいと思います。、あなたは私たちが提案されているこれらのアイデアをどう思うかを教えてください。
To simplify what dbd000 wrote...

日本人コミュニティの皆さん。私たちはこの問題の解決策を見つけようとしていますが、あなたたちの考えも必要です。あなたたちがどう思うかを是非私たちにおしえてください。

(translation)
Dear people in Japanese community. We are trying to find the solution to this problem, but we also need your thoughts. Please tell me what you think about this problem.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:23 pm

Thank you for that KM6BZH. Has anyone else chimed in on this, on their forum?
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:24 pm

Ok. This is kind of going too deep into the copyright laws. Let's just solve this once and for all.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by DD-Destroyer » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:53 am

For late now, YSFlight Korea also have gotten credit rights problem. Our admin will inspect all uploads. So, first of all, total links of YSFLIGHT KOREA uploads thread's temporarily have been disabled.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:59 am

DD-Destroyer wrote:For late now, YSFlight Korea also have gotten credit rights problem. Our admin will inspect all uploads. So, first of all, total links of YSFLIGHT KOREA uploads thread's temporarily have been disabled.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by K2W » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:01 am

As a Japanese modder, I think that we have no easy solution for these "reupload" problems.
Of course, I have known the culture which is common among Japanese YS modders tend to be strict for copyrights.
Not only here, this kind of problems were sometimes occured in Japanese Community.
I don't have a sence whether this culture is too strict or adequate.
But I understand one thing that these cultures are constructed by former modders, before I know YS, and all of us can't change it selfishness if we use or respect their heritages.

If you wish to be perfectly gentle, you must communicate original modder and get permition of all your action for his works always, and if you can't do that, even when he closed his sites and gone from YS community, you should stop your selfish.
If you neglect these tiresome protocol, you should always be prepared your mind for these trouble, even you make any bylaws which is effective among only you.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:15 am

K2W wrote:If you wish to be perfectly gentle, you must communicate original modder and get permition of all your action for his works always, and if you can't do that, even when he closed his sites and gone from YS community, you should stop your selfish.
So I'm kind of confused here.

Also, please do not use Google Translate if you are translating. I don't think that it even gives the right word.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:33 am

KM6BZH wrote:
K2W wrote:If you wish to be perfectly gentle, you must communicate original modder and get permition of all your action for his works always, and if you can't do that, even when he closed his sites and gone from YS community, you should stop your selfish.
So I'm kind of confused here.

Also, please do not use Google Translate if you are translating. I don't think that it even gives the right word.
K2W-san, KM6BZH here understands japanese - if you wish, he can translate. KM6, could be so kind as to translate my message?
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:34 am

Nodoka Hanamura wrote: K2W-san, KM6BZH here understands japanese - if you wish, he can translate. KM6, could be so kind as to translate my message?
Roger that!

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by VNAF ONE » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:52 am

K2W wrote: If you wish to be perfectly gentle, you must communicate original modder and get permition of all your action for his works always, and if you can't do that, even when he closed his sites and gone from YS community, you should stop your selfish.
If you neglect these tiresome protocol, you should always be prepared your mind for these trouble, even you make any bylaws which is effective among only you.
I think he means, we should at least contact the original modder and ask for permission if we can't find or understand written terms of use. If you can't contact them and they are no longer around or their addons and links are gone, do not attempt to reupload or modify, since you may most likely violate their protocols. If you don't bother trying to contact or ignore trying to respect their absence, you should expect problems.

^Am I getting this right? If so, I respect that we should always contact when in doubt, or just period. I do not really agree with the absence policy though. If a site or link becomes broken, I think it should be allowed that someone re-post or re-upload it so people can access it again. Otherwise, that person's work is just lost forever. Even the original creator loses out because now they have 1 less addon with their name on it, and thus are going to be forgotten. I do agree that it shouldn't be modified if you can't contact them. That would be understandable and respectable.

That is of course, just my opinion. I am glad to see more people from the Japanese community weighing in. It sounds like it is less of a crisis as it has been made out to be, and really just needs to be a change in policy and the way we do things from this point on. If there's anything previous we can salvage, that could be done too, but going back on the vast majority of addons is still a huge mistake.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:58 am

VNAF ONE wrote:That is of course, just my opinion. I am glad to see more people from the Japanese community weighing in.
BTW, I made a translation page for Japanese, so more Japanese modders can join YSFHQ.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:45 am

K2W wrote:As a Japanese modder, I think that we have no easy solution for these "reupload" problems.
Of course, I have known the culture which is common among Japanese YS modders tend to be strict for copyrights.
Not only here, this kind of problems were sometimes occured in Japanese Community.
I don't have a sence whether this culture is too strict or adequate.
But I understand one thing that these cultures are constructed by former modders, before I know YS, and all of us can't change it selfishness if we use or respect their heritages.
First of all, thank you K2W for weighing in. We really appreciate hearing from different members of your community. It is true, our modding cultures are very different, and I don't think that will change anytime soon.

I am sure the new admin team will make resolving this problem the first thing they do. Modders like Pat, Decaff, and myself have a few ideas that should prevent breaking these rules and offending your modders in the future.

As far as YSFHQ goes, I am 100% sure this problem will end on our site. We do not know how to handle all the past offending addons, but we will try to come up with something (I am sure). Even if we can't, at least we can change going forward.

KM6, if you don't mind summarizing for me. You've been a great help so far, we really appreciate it.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:58 am

Vic Viper wrote:
K2W wrote:As a Japanese modder, I think that we have no easy solution for these "reupload" problems.
Of course, I have known the culture which is common among Japanese YS modders tend to be strict for copyrights.
Not only here, this kind of problems were sometimes occured in Japanese Community.
I don't have a sence whether this culture is too strict or adequate.
But I understand one thing that these cultures are constructed by former modders, before I know YS, and all of us can't change it selfishness if we use or respect their heritages.
I think what K2W means is that...
1st of all, Japanese modders tend to be strict for copyrights.
2nd, these problems (copyright problems) have occurred in Japanese YSFlight communities too.
3rd, former YSFlight modders (probably referring to Japanese modders) created this culture (citing the original creator), and we need to respect that culture.

Sorry if this isn't clear, but hopefully it helps.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:08 am

Dear Japanese members:
From now on, please post the messages in Japanese. Google Translate just complicates things, so I will help you translate. The reason is that when using Google Translate, the output (English) is not understandable.

日本のメンバーの皆さんへ:
これからは、Google Translate を使用せずに直接日本語でポストしてください。私が通訳をします。理由は、Google Translate を使用すると他の人がわからない英語になるからです。

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