Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Swift » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:17 pm

I second that, it'd simplify everything.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Nodoka Hanamura wrote:Convince Japanese Modders to use the Creative Commons Licenses for copyrighting their works. For instance, BY-NC-ND 4.0 essentially prohibits profiting off the content and making derivatives - Whereas where modders like Zephyr with XLP can use BY-NC-SA, meaning that You cannot profit off the content but you can create derivatives as long as you release them under BY-NC-SA. It would be best to use the regular copyright logo regarding content requiring permission. This would help break this language barrier issue.
I agree. Just use the normal copyright laws. They are international, so it should be a good standard.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by K2W » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:42 am

Swift wrote:that would kill a lot of great addons...
I know that. but so what? It's not your right, sorrowfully.
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:Convince Japanese Modders to use the Creative Commons Licenses for copyrighting their works.
Idea is not worse. But, how do you "convince" all of them? Creative Commons Licenses are effective only after each creater declare (and use logos) them.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Swift » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:10 am

K2W wrote:
Swift wrote:that would kill a lot of great addons...
I know that. but so what? It's not your right, sorrowfully.
i can't find anything to say to that that's not a good thing

do what you want :?
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by mrmofumofu » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:00 am

CC License Is commonly media license over world. This is true.
But already many packs are using original license. This is also true.
Original Licenses are written in Japanese... So HQ Modders are difficult to read them.

Umm... I thought needed "License Check Thread" here...?
Before repaint planes what original(or difficult to understand or unreadable) license, ask the plane license at the thread.
And stock FAQ for some packs(Like "Umaibow F-15's repaint need to get license for modding at Umaibow's Twitter.") somewhere.

This is very very difficult problem... Umm...
C/C++/C#/Python/PHP/JavaScript...etc
For support me, bought me a vodka!

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:31 am

K2W wrote:
Swift wrote:that would kill a lot of great addons...
I know that. but so what? It's not your right, sorrowfully.
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:Convince Japanese Modders to use the Creative Commons Licenses for copyrighting their works.
Idea is not worse. But, how do you "convince" all of them? Creative Commons Licenses are effective only after each creater declare (and use logos) them.
K2W, I think your idea of killing addon is not the solution to this problem. I don't think ANYONE will benefit by killing the addons. You also got to think of the way we both can make YSFlight better. Killing addons would just shrink the possibilities that YSFlight have, and no one wants that to happen.
Last edited by KM6BZH on Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:33 am

mrmofumofu wrote:Original Licenses are written in Japanese... So HQ Modders are difficult to read them.
Since English is the international standard, I wish there is also an English licenses (terms of use) in Japanese packs like "do not modify without my permission".

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:58 am

KM6BZH wrote:
K2W wrote:
Swift wrote:that would kill a lot of great addons...
I know that. but so what? It's not your right, sorrowfully.
Nodoka Hanamura wrote:Convince Japanese Modders to use the Creative Commons Licenses for copyrighting their works.
Idea is not worse. But, how do you "convince" all of them? Creative Commons Licenses are effective only after each creater declare (and use logos) them.
K2W, I think your idea of killing addon is not the solution to this problem. I don't think ANYONE will benefit by killing the addons. You also got to think of the way we both can make YSFlight better. Killing addons would just shrink the possibilities that YSFlight have, and no one wants that to happen.
I agree with KM6. The key point here K2W is that both Japanese modders and YSFHQ must both come to agree. I can agree with all but disallowing the preservation of older mods - that is something me and quite a few others may refuse to budge on. Software that is abandoned, much like the type of mods in question, are considered in the US and elsewhere as "abandonware", meaning that although their copyright is still in effect, No one is enforcing it due to its' age or due to the creator leaving YS. You can read more about it here: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/アバンダンウェア
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Vic Viper » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:00 pm

Just a quick aside, just remember guys that K2 is simply letting us know how the modder's feel on these subjects, don't shoot the messenger.

That being said. I strongly believe that it is a waste not to share dead addons when the creator disappears, however, it wouldn't hurt to start getting in contact with the original creator (like Joker did with Zepher) and ask permission to re-upload. If that doesn't work, well, I won't tell you what to do.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Vic Viper wrote:Just a quick aside, just remember guys that K2 is simply letting us know how the modder's feel on these subjects, don't shoot the messenger.

That being said. I strongly believe that it is a waste not to share dead addons when the creator disappears, however, it wouldn't hurt to start getting in contact with the original creator (like Joker did with Zepher) and ask permission to re-upload. If that doesn't work, well, I won't tell you what to do.
Yes - K2W-san, the last thing we mean is to bring hostility here. I was merely stating what I was seeing and what is fact. Diplomacy usually requires coming to a compromise. Luckily for Japanese Developers, our agreement is "more closer to them" then it is to us.

What this means is that we're complying with most of what you want, however, we merely hold strong resentment regarding re-uploading works no longer accessible from the original creator.
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:47 am

Hmmm... my solution is as follows:
1. Rewrite the Terms and Conditions which is in Japanese to English.
2. Make a English Terms and conditions for each addon.

This should resolve the problem, but we need the Japanese modders to agree (or disagree).
I also made a terms and condition template for anyone to use.
Attachments
Terms And Conditions Template.zip
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Nodoka Hanamura » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:14 am

I'd like to make it known - It's not hard to ask permission. Just be polite (and for possible small dash of cookie points, use Japanese honorifics - use -san after their name (Umaibow-san, Joker-san, mofumofu-san)) and ask clearly what you want.

For instance - https://twitter.com/umaibow_915/status/ ... 9395726336

This was GrunSolutions' Official Twitter account asking Umaibow-san for permissions regarding his Su-27. We also went to NajmiCreative on our discord and asked for permissions so we can use his Su-30s. Being nice is key. if they ask why, explain why.

If you are declined, use this opportunity to scratch model it - keep at it, and you may even outdo the original in terms of quality!
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by u2fly » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:11 pm

KM6BZH wrote:This should resolve the problem, but we need the Japanese modders to agree (or disagree).
Maybe better propose for YSFHQ and Japanese members use only CreativeCommons licenses? Them include already translations for most used languages in the world and have few different types with different conditions.
CC Licenses - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/
Here is special license choose helper - https://creativecommons.org/choose/

Also, I hope soon it would be possible implement CC License chooser into YSFHQ upload dialog.

I like how FlightGear work with licensing add-ons (they must be under GPL), and hope YSFlight also allow some standart license.

As for me, CC BY-SA 4.0 is best license for YSFHQ add-ons (Wikipedia also use it).
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0
CreativeCommons wrote:Learn more about CC licensing, or use the license for your own material.

This page is available in the following languages:
Castellano Castellano (España) Català Dansk Deutsch English Esperanto français Galego hrvatski Indonesia Italiano Latviski Lietuvių Magyar Melayu Nederlands Norsk polski Português Português (BR) Português (Portugal) română Suomeksi svenska Türkçe íslenska česky Ελληνικά Беларуская русский українська ﯽﺳﺭﺎﭘ ﺔﻴﺑﺮﻌﻟﺍ中文 日本語 華語 (台灣) 한국어
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P.S.: Can you check is it possible post this add-on links from Japan?
1) https://twitter.com/Atolie_toro/status/ ... 0446388224
2) https://twitter.com/sakuya_ghool1/statu ... 4891289600
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Midnight Rambler » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:55 am

Has this ever been sorted or still a grey area?

I understand that the Japanese community are adamant that models are not re-uploaded post leaving YS. Strictly speaking, yes copyright law would indicate that their wishes should be upheld. That being said, I believe that in one way or another these addons would continued to be shared among everyone, if not officially on HQ.

Another option would be to consider a grandfather clause with the new addon upload criteria. The clause would acknowledge that previous addons that broke copyright were made/used in a non-malicious manner, but are still allowed to be released/circulated for the good of the community/YS as a whole. Anything made after this date would have to adhere to the addon criteria and sign/tick a waiver when uploading, noting that copyright use is granted by the original modder. Any addon found to be breaking the upload criteria after this date, if reported, would be locked and link removed until copyright infringement is fixed. Obviously this would require that the original modders accept this arrangement - I stress again, for the good of the community. So many addons have been created and only recently has it been noted that these copyrights have been broken.

The idea of Fair Use may relate to our use of models outside of specific copyright, specifically that there is no commercial gain from it. We cannot rely on it and should be proactively moving towards fixing this problem. Additionally, the main reason for this infringement is the lack of communication and inability to read the copyright information in the readme files - which are often corrupted.


Thoughts?
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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by Patrick31337 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:25 am

It's not that the readme files are corrupted. They can easily be translated if you have a text editor that reads Japanese characters. The problem is that neither Google nor Bing are able to translate Japanese text in context. The same sentence that has been translated to English can be read to say either repainting and modifications are allowed or not allowed, depending on interpretation of where the English reader thinks the verb at the end of the translation should have been in the sentence. I follow several Japanese members on Twitter, and I can rarely figure out what they tweet about using the built-in translation from Bing. We are fortunate that many current Japanese community members, such as Utachy, post their terms in both Japanese and English, so there is less guessing.

My suggestion and personal policy is to try not to violate a modder's wishes from here on, and stop using anything once I know it violates their wishes. Also, contacting for permission first is always a good idea if possible.

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Re: Japanese repaints and addon copyright discussion

Post by KM6BZH » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:13 pm

I prefer to use Sakura Editor when opening Japanese readme. They can open the text files in Japanese.

I can always do translations if any of you need. Just pm me the text.

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