Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

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Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Shutter » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:09 am

YS missiles are a strange beast, in some ways very overpowered and ridiculous, in others completely useless. They have a very mixed reputation in the ys combat community. While we all acknowledge that if used right, they are very powerful tools, we also recognize that they are often spammed in large numbers at a single target, are very unrealistic, and generally a guns kill is much easier to get. Basically missiles are seen as the "noob" weapon online because no one uses them right, no one respects them, and generally they are abused. This guide will help fix that by teaching you proper missile use, and also proper missile evasion tactics.


Offensive missile use

-Load your aircraft properly. Just because you CAN carry 10 missiles doesn't ever mean you should. Most aircraft in real life never carry that much, and for very good reasons that are easily applicable to ys. First off, your aircraft's turn performance suffers terribly if you overload it with missiles. This is a big disadvantage with our new missiles since they are no longer of the "fire and forget" style, and you need to keep your nose on your opponent. You must keep in mind that most fights in ys servers are of a very short range, so essentially the use of the amraam (aim-120, the mid-range missile in ys) is largely not appropriate. Load 2-4 aim-9's or aim-9x (sidewinder) missiles in a short range fight. In a fight with longer distances, or in which you are at a speed disadvantage, you will want to carry 2-4 amraam's and 0-2 sidewinders.

-Do not spam. This cannot be stressed enough. You should never have more than one missile going to a single target. The reason for this being is that you shouldn't fire a missile unless you think it will hit, and you shouldn't fire another one at an aircraft until you know whether it hit or not, because each missile is plenty enough to kill a plane. In fact, if you use the new missiles a single missile per plane should be perfectly plausible if you do it right. Additionally, firing missiles in short bursts is completely ineffective: they will follow the same path, and if one does not hit its target, none of them will because they will all lose their target in the exact same way. Think of each of those missiles as a piece of tech that costs your nation's taxpayers several millions. You shouldn't waste em. And if you do, you might not have the ordnance to stay in the fight when you run out of other munitions, and you'll be regretting that you wasted that second missile on an already dead target because you felt like spamming.

-Know the Sidewinder. The sidewinders are very agile but are also of a very limited range. Our sidewinders are also strange in that there is no infrared in ys, only a sort of fake all-aspect radar tracking. This means your sidewinders can be fired from anywhere relative to your enemy, and it also means that radar stealth affects their tracking ability (by reducing the range from which you can get a lock). Sidewinders are best used when you are at a close range but cannot achieve a guns kill. Remember, you have a lot more bullets than missiles, so use guns whenever possible. Try to fire them from a position that makes it so that they will not be deviated by flares. A normal shot from directly on the six of your enemy is actually no sure kill in ys, because they can make space between themselves and the flare the quickest that way (the flare/aircraft distance determines whether or not their aircraft will get hit). It is however a viable tactic with the looping 9x. Firing them from near their nose and from a little above often seems to work best over a wide variety of distances with the standard aim-9 (your lock will be broken, don't waste a 9x for this). I say from above because from below the missile will most likely always see the flare before it hits the aircraft, whereas from above you generally have the aircraft in front of the flare. It's also best if you can manage to get the shot off when they are in a low-energy state, as in low speed, low altitude (still above radar though, remember if they dip below the radar horizon your sidewinders are still affected and your lock on range much reduced) because if they are slow, it is more difficult to for the enemy to turn hard and remove themselves from the flare. This means that if your wingman is currently committed to an enemy in a slow, low turning circle, you can easily get rid of that enemy. While they will indeed be turning tight and thus have a good chance of popping off a successful countermeasure, you have the luxury (if not engaged yourself) to take your energy and get in a favorable look-down position and fire from above their lift vector when they are turning, and when you are nearby. While you could certainly do the same thing with guns, the sidewinder will more certainly deliver a result in a single pass and frees up your wingman to continue backing you up in the fight.You must also be aware of the aim-9x's proper use. To keep a lock on with the aim-9x can mean an almost certain kill, because the longer you have a lock on your enemy, the more the sidewinder will loop around aggressively and unpredictably, making it very hard for the defending aircraft to space out flares properly. In fact they might just start spamming flares, and the constant re-locking of the missile will follow the flares right to your target. To do this, you need to keep a lock on to your enemy, which is why I say tail shots are best with the 9x. Again, it is best to engage before they do, or when they are committed to a different target. This is an ideal technique for fast bricks that cannot turn with smaller, agile jets and will use the 9x to do all the high-g turns. Keep your distance, slow down, keep your lock, stay above them, and you've got them. Always try to engage at an altitude that favors them racing towards you instead of simply dipping below radar and breaking your lock. This is somewhere around 4000-6000 feet in ys terms. Also make sure you don't fire reacquiring missiles so low that their loops make them hit the ground. Also take note of the fact that your last 9x is not going to be reacquiring because you need a 9x selected for this to work.

-A note on very short distance, head on missile shots: This is a very effective tactic, sure, and it's also a legitimate one. However keep in mind that you will often be using a sidewinder if you do this because it takes less time to lock and turn, and that it is a waste if you use the 9x because you will immediately lose your lock. It is also widely considered as "noobish" because it takes zero skill to pull off, and is easy enough to avoid. I would advise everyone to avoid wasting your missiles in such a way, because if you get a nose to nose pass, your guns will make short work of your enemy since you have a HUGE target that is coming RIGHT INTO YOUR GUNFIRE. That part I discussed about not wasting your missiles is especially true here.

-Know the amraam The amraam is the clever man's missile. It isn't nearly as agile as the sidewinder, but its advantage lies in giving your aircraft the ability to attack from what is arguably beyond visual range, and it gives any aircraft the ability to fight at much longer range than any other weapon in the ys arsenal. While there are a variety of ways to fight at a short distance, this is your only mid range weapon and you must respect it and be even more weary of wasting it than a sidewinder. If you use this missile right, any fighter becomes a proper deterrence weapon, and not just some sort of short range platform only fit for fighting fighters that wish to fight other fighters, and shooting down lumbering aircraft. This means you should never be using the amraam when you could be using a sidewinder. Your amraams are far too valuable for that because once you run out, you become a much less capable aircraft. With the amraam, you will almost always be firing from the front or the rear of your enemy. If you are firing from the rear (e.g. chasing down an enemy) scoring a kill is a simple method of firing from close enough that your missile has enough turns. People often assume it will stop returning for a hit before it actually does. And while tail shots are perhaps more easy to flare for, as with the reacquiring 9x, the amraam might just follow the flare to the aircraft if the plane hasn't gotten far away enough from the flare. The second best position to fire the amraam from is head-on or close to head on, and it is the most likely shot. Essentially, the amraam's loop will make it become a tail shot, and it succeeds for the same reason a tail shot succeeds. It is also especially advantageous if you fire the amraam from below the radar horizon with the head to head amraam shot because it takes them longer to find you and try to break your lock. (a quick note is that the lock is often broken during the merge turn). The aim-120 is best for slower aircraft that have to fight at an energy disadvantage against fighters that can both run away from their non aim-120 weapons (guns, sidewinders) and basically determine how the fight goes with either hit and run tactics, or just ignoring the slower fighter and going towards their real objective. The last and best thing to use with the amraam is what is known as the "sub-window trick" which many people do not know since it has long been a jealously guarded trick, but is really just a basic function of ysflight. Essentially you open a subwindow (default: O key) and select "locked target view". This allows you to determine which target you are locked on to, and often allows you to fire the missile before you get a username circle lock-on. Essentially if you see the aircraft fixed in the center of your subwindow, the aircraft is locked on and you can fire the missile.

-Keeping the right opponent locked on. This is a very real problem when you fight in crowded situations, as is often the case. If you have more than one enemy, how do you stay locked onto the one you want your missile to be firing at/reacquiring? The only good tactic is to imagine a sort of circle around the enemies, keep your crosshair just out of this circle, and predict the locked enemy's trajectory and follow the outside of your imaginary circle with your crosshair along that trajectory.

-Missile ditching. If the fight becomes a win-or-die gunfight with tight turns, just fire all your missiles away if you can't turn with your enemy. Better to lose your payload than die, and missiles are a heavy load.

-Don't kill your wingman. Flying in close formation in missile combat is a terrible idea for a variety of reasons, one of those being that you can shoot down allied aircraft in your missile's path.


Missile evasion:
-Don't get shot at. The first rule of evading missiles is to not get shot at altogether. This is reasonably easy to do from mid-range, just dip below radar if it's an airborne threat, or fly too high or too low if it's a SAM. (40,000 ft is usually enough for stock ground targets). Failing that, you should try to just not be within a context that requires you evading the missile. If you are in a fast aircraft and very far away from the missile's origin, you may be able to just fly in a straight line away from it. If you are only just within range of the missile, you can just turn tail and get outside of its maximum range. Failing all that, if the missile is a player-fired 9x or 120, you can fly towards the enemy and break their lock. (Imagine a big cone extending from their nose. If you get outside of this cone you break their lock)

-Get away from the flare as much as possible. The golden rule to actual missile evasion. Drop a single flare when the missile is nearby (going to hit you in 1-1.5 seconds) and turn hard away from the flare. The further you are from it, the better the chance it will miss. Keep an eye on your radar to know where they are and when to flare.

-Space flares out, do not spam them. It's ridiculous how often I see people spamming 8 flares in a row because a boat shot a single damn missile at them. Missiles don't come in packets of one, and you can generally dodge a good 10 missiles in a ground target range, or 3-4 missiles if multiple aircraft fire missiles at you more or less at once. Make sure you don't fire flares too close to the ground, or it will be lost and not be used to its full potential.

-Try to get looping missiles to hit the ground. This one is straightforward. Excellent for when you're low on flares and can't afford to use them. The 120 can be especially susceptible to this.

-If you run out of flares. A viable tactic is simply pulling away and as hard as possible into the incoming missile right before it hits. Takes some practice and a lot of speed, but it can work on many dats.

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Last edited by Shutter on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Doomsday » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:24 am

Its so funny when a "noob" fires all his missiles at me and I deflect all of them with one flare.
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Raven » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:26 am

Well said. =)
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by GimiGlider » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:08 am

Doomsday wrote:Its so funny when a "noob" fires all his missiles at me and I deflect all of them with one flare.
Too bad for me...bernholm missile spammed me head on, I barely had time to say "the fu-?" before they impacted my flanker-and now it's on youtube. Curse you bernholm. :x
Shutter:
so...you're saying that all default AAA's SAMs, all enemy aircraft on non multiplayer mode are noobs? AAAs and SAM waste many missiles and gun, and so does the enemy.

Also, thanks, can we combine the gunfight with this? (do this until out of missiles, then gun). Also, should I fire 1 or 2 flares at once, I heard that one the missiles still have a chance of hitting you, but with 2 they have no chance of hitting you. Is that true?
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Raven » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:24 am

YsFlights AI has a brain about the size of a peanut. It only knows what it has to do to survive in-game, nothing more, nothing less. So in calling them noobs.. I think is giving the AI too much credit. =)

Also for every missile fired directly upon you, there needs to be a flare popped out of the aircraft's belly.

Which leads me to my ysflight wishlist item 398, for every missile fired upon you, there needs to be individually marked missile warnings instead of just a single warning.

Example: The current missile warning just says "Missile Warning"... Even after a second missile is fired, the replica message is still showed, now if a player doesn't have the mini radar on, or the airspace is heavy with fire.. how will the pilot know how many missiles is being sent his way, when the initial message just says missile warning.. I suggest Missile warnings numbered missile warning 1 missile warning 2.. That way you WILL ect ect..

I'm just ranting, because I have the experience to do so. =)
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Philster » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:00 am

GimiGlider wrote: Too bad for me...bernholm missile spammed me head on, I barely had time to say "the fu-?" before they impacted my flanker-and now it's on youtube. Curse you
Just take the precaution of popping a flare before the pass. Usually before I cross an opponent in a dogfight, I perform a roll and shoot out a flare. Rolling prevents any bullets the opponent shoots from hitting me, and popping a flare protects me from a sudden missile spam. The barrel roll also allows me to get into a better position for the pass.
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Shutter » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:03 am

Philster wrote:
GimiGlider wrote: Too bad for me...bernholm missile spammed me head on, I barely had time to say "the fu-?" before they impacted my flanker-and now it's on youtube. Curse you
Just take the precaution of popping a flare before the pass. Usually before I cross an opponent in a dogfight, I perform a roll and shoot out a flare. Rolling prevents any bullets the opponent shoots from hitting me, and popping a flare protects me from a sudden missile spam. The barrel roll also allows me to get into a better position for the pass.
Yeah, this is also the main tactic for evading the head on missile shots, which I forgot to mention. Good call. It's also a good idea to add in some rudder swinging, which is really fantastic for dodging bullets.

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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by aeTIos » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:30 am

Thanks. I really needed this.

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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Crazypilot » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Ah I love it when a noob spams me and his shocked reaction to see not even one hit :{) Although I suck at dodging head on missiles.
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Phoenix » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:38 pm

it gets highly irritating sometimes.

However there is something I like to do. f the enemy flies a stealth aircraft I fire my missile as an unguided rocket.

:D

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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Shiny Rice » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Shutter wrote: Image
Everyone knows who said that. Not gonna say it though. He's the two year old that is not using flares. Back in topic, Shutter, this is a great explanation of YS missle physics.
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Shutter » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:35 pm

Rise and Shine wrote:
Shutter wrote: Image
Everyone knows who said that. Not gonna say it though. He's the two year old that is not using flares. Back in topic, Shutter, this is a great explanation of YS missle physics.
Actually that's a picture erict added for lolz. I didn't originally have it in the thread but I approve, it's fucking hilarious.

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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Crazypilot » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:39 am

Plus this will teach noobs there are other ways to fight than just launching all your missiles and then saying ''OH SHIT my missiles are gone better respawn!''
And yeah that picture is fucking funny.
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Maroon 5 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:41 pm

The only reason I use missiles is because I suck at aiming my gun. The only time I use a gun is when someone is directly behind me, and I pull up and shoot him from behind. Maybe a tutorial on dogfighting with the gun would help?
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Re: Shutter's easy guide to ys missile a2a combat (fighters)

Post by Doomsday » Tue May 01, 2012 10:49 pm

fanjet wrote:The only reason I use missiles is because I suck at aiming my gun. The only time I use a gun is when someone is directly behind me, and I pull up and shoot him from behind. Maybe a tutorial on dogfighting with the gun would help?
Maybe if you looked in the YS Combat stickies you would've found an extensive tutorial on gunfighting...

http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2922
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