YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Questions, comments, concerns, & fixes
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YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

Soji Yamakawa wrote:http://ysflight.in.coocan.jp/ysflight/y ... tvere.html
--
2017/09/10
  • Added Cessna 172
DOWNLOAD: Let's test it!

P.S.: Saddly, there no any info about fixed bugs on official website.

P.P.S.: Development of this Cessna 172 described here
http://ysflight.in.coocan.jp/polygoncre ... helpe.html

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

>10 frames with ctrl+1 windowed and not even looking at the clouds
>cloud graphics changing option is now broken
>even less frames than the previous 2017 test version
>absolutely nothing performance and optimization wise has been changed
>adds a Cessna with a disappearing prop at full throttle, grey doors, and half-assed polygon work on the wings
>Taskforce 58's had Cessnas since 2008
>The YS Flight Community having a long record of finding things about the sim years before Soji even does

>"months of development"
>adds a plane


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I give up.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

Kujo wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:53 pm>10 frames with ctrl+1 windowed and not even looking at the clouds
>cloud graphics changing option is now broken
>even less frames than the previous 2017 test version
>absolutely nothing performance and optimization wise has been changed
>adds a Cessna with a disappearing prop at full throttle, grey doors, and half-assed polygon work on the wings
>Taskforce 58's had Cessnas since 2008
>The YS Flight Community having a long record of finding things about the sim years before Soji even does

>"months of development"
>adds a plane


Image

I give up.
I think, that the only way #MakeYSFlightGreateAgain is open source code, so we could fix too much bugs presented since 20150425 version.

This should be my last email to CaptainYS:

Code: Select all

Dear, Soji!
Please, make YSFlight open source project right now!
If you don't do it - community of YSFlight will dissapear shortly after 2017...

We are smart users and won't use dirty flight simulator.
Soji, you told that if you can't spend more time on YSFlight development you will open sources of it.
Looking on current progress I can resume: now it's a time to make YSFlight opensource. Please, hear us!

With best regards,
- u2fly
Last edited by NightRaven on Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need to sound unnecessarily aggressive with big and red font.

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Neocon »

There is no reason to be rude and aggressive.

The Cessna is not backwards compatible with 2015 YS, although I suspect the .dat would be easy to fix.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 2433 »

"
We are smart users and won't use dirty flight simulator."

Dammit u2fly....
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

For the record, here is sought why YSFlight popularity decreased in last 5 years
Flake wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:53 am What happened is the developer kept the program closed source and refused help from other willing people.

Plus the developer got ahead of himself and added more features then the code could sustain-ably have. Now he's trying to chase his tail to fix the code inefficiencies and pinch points but it's just not built right.

I've looked at the code for polycrest - so many single letter variable names. No comments. No segmentation. The code is just not nice to read - it's very functional and powerful. But it can't be easily maintained without years experience and a masters in comp-sci.

So what happened? Nothing. Nothing happened, and that's exactly what went wrong.

Why the slow decline then? Because we are holding on here.

Open the program up, please. It's time.
February 2017 - viewtopic.php?f=137&t=9163

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 2704 »

u2fly wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:49 amThis should be my last email to CaptainYS:
What a shit mail...

Captain already show his policy about YSF's licensing.
And do you think that you are in a position where you can say rude things like them?
Your message is too rude for Captain I thought.

AT FIRST, CHECK HIS SITE NOW!
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

mrmofumofu wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:34 pm Captain already show his policy about YSF's licensing.
And do you think that you are in a position where you can say rude things like them?
Your message is too rude for Captain I thought.

AT FIRST, CHECK HIS SITE NOW!
First of all, @mrmofumofu, I know YSFlight website and what was posted on it by Soji very well. But when I want ask somebody, I will ask. I hope, there nobody was enjured by my email to Soji. And I could accept that No Animals Were Harmed by this email too.

I already told, that year (or so) ago Soji (aka CaptainYS) said that he will open sources of YSFlight on time when he can't spent more time on YSFlight development. And I'm not only one who want help in development of YSFlight, but we cant help while it still has closed sources.
Also, there no good looking bug tracker, where all bugs documented, and as result we don't know what fixed and what lost from version to version.

Also, @Flake and many other users want to see sources of YSFlight before death.

If (I hope very soon) Soji will open sources of YSFlight, it does not mean that we will fork it immediatly or will got control on this project. There are many different open source licensies, that could in same time allow keep open sources and same time prevent for forking (if Soji won't make YSFlight fully FLOSS software).

Anyway, I be wait for sources of YSFlight here - https://gitlab.kitware.com/users/captainys/projects

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Barr »

I got a solid 25-30fps with the cessna looking at the clouds in Armori and using ctrl3 on my potato. I remember getting alot less using the last may test version so he did something.

Also If you fly with the cessna engine sounds change with rpm/load and not by throtlle position which should be intersting. I wonder if he ever continued fiddling with the variable pitch props and engine mixtures tho.


And something something Soji's personal project blah blah never intended to be a full fledge sim something something... :roll:
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

Granny Apple Smith wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:43 amAlso If you fly with the cessna engine sounds change with rpm/load and not by throtlle position which should be intersting. I wonder if he ever continued fiddling with the variable pitch props and engine mixtures tho.
This feature coming since YSFlight 20150425 version, where RPM indicator was added on instrument pannel in few aircrafts
CaptainYS wrote:http://ysflight.in.coocan.jp/ysflight/y ... l#20140706

Also, I am adding more realistic propeller simulation. I want to add Cessna 172. To do so, I want my engine to react more realistic. New realistic propeller simulation is now tested on Piper Archer and P-51 Mustang. In the next version, the .DAT file can pick between realistic propeller simulation or simplified (current) propeller simulation.
Here is first topic about it
viewtopic.php?t=7989
Currently, RPM featers described in "YSFlight Handbook" (link to topic where you can get it as PDF placed in my sign bellow)

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Flake »

Soji is secretly Rick.


Also, thanks u2fly. In the past I said I would never stop anyone from putting their own foot in their mouth but this takes the cake buddy.
I am an accountant working full-time (and some). I'm not here as often as I would like to be. Send a message if you need me. There are a few people in the community who can get in contact with me urgently if you need - don't be afraid to ask. I just don't check here as frequently as I used to. Sorry!
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 2704 »

u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:21 amFirst of all, @mrmofumofu, I know YSFlight website and what was posted on it by Soji very well. But when I want ask somebody, I will ask. I hope, there nobody was enjured by my email to Soji. And I could accept that No Animals Were Harmed by this email too.
It seems not to understand my message mean.
I lost motivation for develop ExportSRF about your condescending and disrespecting message before (I believe) you know. So I'm worried about same thing happen to Captain.

I can write C98/C++11 so I want to see YSFLIGHT network module and improve them too. But I know his policy so I didn't request that to keep his motivation.

And closed source developing keep compatibility for all users. So to keep closed source YSFLIGHT is not bad choice for many (non-developer) users.

Currently we could read part of YSFLIGHT code from PolygonCrest and etc... So I'm waiting YSFLIGHT to be OSS and read these Captain's OSS code for my tools.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

mrmofumofu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 am I lost motivation for develop ExportSRF about your condescending and disrespecting message before (I believe) you know. So I'm worried about same thing happen to Captain.
What?

In situation with ExportSRF: you don't understand how Blender add-on's should be licensed. I already explain you why this add-on should be open-source (under GNU GPL v2 or later, according Blender policy for add-on development).

When I found, that you won't cooperate for next development of ExportSRF, I decided fork it according terms of GNU GPL v2 or later, and now it known as "YSFS 2.0" and hosted on Github.

Why you lost motivation? I don't know, but this is your issue, not my. I'm happy to see more contributors for continuose development of "YSFS 2.0", and all are welcome!

Comparing YSFlight licensing and Blender add-on licensing in current topic look strange. This two projects are so different cases.

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Neocon »

u2fly, I think many people have an issue with your wording. For example:
u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:51 amIn situation with ExportSRF: you don't understand how Blender add-on's should be licensed. I already explain you why this add-on should be open-source (under GNU GPL v2 or later, according Blender policy for add-on development).
This sounds like you are questioning mrmofumofu's intelligence. Maybe you are, or maybe it is just the way your wording in English implies that you are talking down to him, but it comes off as blunt and impolite.
u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:51 amComparing YSFlight licensing and Blender add-on licensing in current topic look strange. This two projects are so different cases.
I'm not even sure what was your purpose of typing that.
mrmofumofu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 amAnd closed source developing keep compatibility for all users. So to keep closed source YSFLIGHT is not bad choice for many (non-developer) users.
And yet, not compatible with my PC. haha #INeedAnUpdate #VistaProblems
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Vic Viper »

mrmofumofu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 am I can write C98/C++11 so I want to see YSFLIGHT network module and improve them too. But I know his policy so I didn't request that to keep his motivation.
This has already happened. He's lost motivation, otherwise the game performance would not have gotten so bad since 2012-2013. The game runs poorly on computers that are worth a few hundred to a few thousand USD

A lot of people here feel this way, but they would have been much more polite than u2fly. I don't think he really means to be so rude to you or the Captain, but @u2fly, let's try toning it down a bit and use a more tactful approach.

Also..
mrmofumofu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 am And closed source developing keep compatibility for all users. So to keep closed source YSFLIGHT is not bad choice for many (non-developer) users.
A bit mistaken, otherwise the linux community would not exist. In reality the more different computers the source code could be tested on, then the game would become more compatible and less buggy. But that is the Captain's choice, not ours.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 2704 »

u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:51 amIn situation with ExportSRF: you don't understand how Blender add-on's should be licensed. I already explain you why this add-on should be open-source (under GNU GPL v2 or later, according Blender policy for add-on development).

When I found, that you won't cooperate for next development of ExportSRF, I decided fork it according terms of GNU GPL v2 or later, and now it known as "YSFS 2.0" and hosted on Github.

Why you lost motivation? I don't know, but this is your issue, not my. I'm happy to see more contributors for continuose development of "YSFS 2.0", and all are welcome!
(I'm sorry to write off-topic contents.)
At first time, ExportSRF licensed by MIT(very open licence) and I could choose GPLv3 because I like open source very much then.
When you forked my script first, I and you made little mistakes about licensing. At first I got angly for your mistake, but I realized that I made mistakes too.
So I kept a low profile to close this problem ASAP. But your reply was too condescending and disrespecting so I got angly again.

After that, u2 seems to say "It made by me!" from me(I thought it came from my "angly bias") and he left his fork user in troubles(They asked to me...). So I changed ExportSRF's license proprietary.

Finally I rechanged it to GPLv3 by "General Public Virus". But I losted motivation to develop ExportSRF publicly end of the problem by these condescending and disrespecting messages and tired this problem.

Thats all.
Vic Viper wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:23 pmA bit mistaken, otherwise the linux community would not exist. In reality the more different computers the source code could be tested on, then the game would become more compatible and less buggy. But that is the Captain's choice, not ours.
Patrick31337 wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:12 pmAnd yet, not compatible with my PC. haha #INeedAnUpdate #VistaProblems
I'm sorry I didn't make it clear enough...
I want to say about "data/packet" compatibility that like same action from same DNM/DAT.
Able to play too old mods came from "data/packet" compatibility and keep it difficult.

BTW YS stability after 2015 version is not well I feel too. YS needs BTS for stability problem.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by u2fly »

mrmofumofu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:36 pmSo I changed ExportSRF's license proprietary.
You CAN'T make proprietary add-on for Blender! All add-ons that include Blender API should be open-source and licensed under same license as Blender (GNU GPL v2, or later). It's described in Blender policy for add-ons development.
README - viewtopic.php?p=106162#p106162
--
P.S.: If somebody want discuss development of "YSFS 1.x" and "YSFS 2.x", please, use right topics
1) viewtopic.php?t=1586&p=103658#p103658
2) viewtopic.php?t=8534
3) viewtopic.php?t=8090
--
Also, welcome to Github - http://github.com/ysflight-opensource

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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:25 pm*Links, links everywhere*
I don't think that we can really do anything to change the net code or serious problems that the sim has at this point. They're just too severe and he's already said that he'll keep the code away from us until he's "done with it." The only person at this point with real power to code programs outside of the sim that can fix multiplayer and other things now is Flake. (Praise be unto him)

And for God's sake, could we just deal with the fact that YSFlight is never getting another good update at this point, and that Soji won't reply to any emails that we send to him regardless of the tone that they are in? Screeching at the top of your lungs to make him fix all of the problems it has now is literally just you screeching at a computer. No matter how loud the voice is, the computer just doesn't care and won't do anything. I don't want to single out anyone at this point, but u2fly, you act as if YSFlight stopped existing, you would immediately die due to some type of cancer. It's a game fam. Try and remain calm like we try to, and try your best to reword some of the points that you bring up. It's the angry tone that makes everyone oppose your position.

Instead of arguing, and seeing what Soji has done with driving this game development into a wall at high speed, the best thing that we can really do is just move back/downgrade our installs of YSFlight to older versions. Personally, I HIGHLY recommend the versions from either 2011, 2012, or 2014, because they are all the most stable versions of YSFlight with the same net code implemented. There we can all play on actually decent connection, low lag servers and never bother with seeing another major problem within the game again. Newer versions just got released? Just forget them. Soji rarely ever replies to emails anyway so feedback does not work. I have sent him 2 emails in the past 3 years, one I had waited more than 2 for him to reply with (and yes, both of these messages were very calm and just notifying about problems) and the second one I have yet to hear back from. Since my first email telling him about the glitches, he hasn't done jack sh!t to fix them. So why do we keep trying when we already know he won't do anything? Don't get seriously mad at anything that newer versions contain. Just downgrade. That simple.
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Flake »

Kujo wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:56 amThe only person at this point with real power to code programs outside of the sim that can fix multiplayer and other things now is Flake.
You're too kind. In honesty, I wanna code some more and I intend too this summer (winter) break but yeah, thinking i'll be focusing on 20110207 netcode only.
Kujo wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:56 amIt's the angry tone that makes everyone oppose your position.
QFT. No hard feeling man. We agree with your viewpoint, just not how you say it.
I am an accountant working full-time (and some). I'm not here as often as I would like to be. Send a message if you need me. There are a few people in the community who can get in contact with me urgently if you need - don't be afraid to ask. I just don't check here as frequently as I used to. Sorry!
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Re: YSFlight 20170910 Test Version

Post by Deleted User 2704 »

u2fly wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:25 pmYou CAN'T make proprietary add-on for Blender! All add-ons that include Blender API should be open-source and licensed under same license as Blender (GNU GPL v2, or later). It's described in Blender policy for add-ons development.
Oh... It seems not to to understand my message even now. I don't talk about license (I tried to answer your question "Why you lost motivation?" because I'm only talking about your wording and losting motivation from that...).
I'm tired....

BTW, I recieved reply from Captain about bug report about "Linux no sound problem in test version" in this April. And he said he is too busy.
Captain need to rest too so I wait for bugfix for "stack smash" occured in net code in stable-linux.
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