Dogfighting

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Dogfighting

Post by Midnight Rambler » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:11 am

Thought I may as well add some links to some great sites that have given me some excellent ideas and tricks to use while dogfighting. I want to start a list of good info/links on dogfighting so if anyone else has any links, tricks, ideas or questions that they want to add/ask, here the place to start.

One thing that every dogfighter needs to remember are the typical YS Combat Standards that Bombcat wrote up, these are a crucial starting point.

The greatest tip I can give is this: Practice

Links:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/RPFS/index.php?showtopic=324 RPFW dogfight tactics topic - Found this while looking around their site, a great way to find information about how other great YS dogfighters used to fight.

Falcon 3.0 tactics Excellent information about energy management, good information YS-wise for standard dogfighting manouvers. (It's a touch deep, but if you understand it you will have a definite advantage.)

Flight Sim Manouvers The first site I was told to look at, Maverick told me about it and I've never looked back. Thought its time for others to learn about it.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Neil » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:57 am

Interesting websites there, MR. This should be stickied.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Shutter » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:54 pm

:)
Excellent stuff.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Iceman » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Thy post hath been stuckied.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:31 pm

From a top WWI ace:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke
Especially number 6.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Midnight Rambler » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:53 pm

@Ice - thanks

@Phoenix - Definitely, energy management is crucial to an evenly matched dogfight.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:39 pm

Thanks.

I also found that doing several low yo-yo's can help you get on your opponents tail in a turning fight, if his plane is more manoeuvrable. I used it to score a gun kill in a Draken vs Mig-29.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_figh ... #Low_Yo-Yo

Hope it helps.

Amazing escape manoeuvre at: 00.41 P-51 to evade Me-109.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIi_j-n ... re=related

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Zeus » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:15 pm

Midnight Rambler wrote:l] RPFW dogfight tactics topic - Found this while looking around their site, a great way to find information about how other great YS dogfighters used to fight.
Hey theres a post from me in that link!

Great stuff guys! Keep it coming!
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:37 pm

Another good tip: in a turning fight, lower flaps. This will help you get on their tail faster.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Bombcat » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:50 pm

Phoenix wrote:Another good tip: in a turning fight, lower flaps. This will help you get on their tail faster.
Dropping your flaps will increase your lift and drag - it will improve turn performance while it slows you down some. That's why it's handy to have your controls optimized to move the flaps easily. Drop them while turning, but be sure to raise them while accelerating. Someone who tries to put some distance between himself and the other fighter with his flaps down makes himself an easy target.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Ri Ra » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:03 pm

Very nice thread. I had bits and peices of this stuff in my head but those links realy glued it all together. I will have to try some stuff out soon.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Bombcat » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Some of my own recommendations and observations which some may find useful:
  1. Energy = Options. This is a more general adaptation of the popular saying that "Speed is life." Your current energy reserves determine your freedom to place your aircraft where you want it when you want it there. Energy is found in three useful elements of your fighter's condition - your speed, your altitude, and your available thrust. When your energy is high, you can turn tighter, evade more easily, and generally control the terms of the fight. At the start of the fight, seek the highest speed at which you may safely maneuver, and if you have ample distance, climb as much as possible. If you're plane is faster and higher while both planes are in a neutral position (nose to nose or tail to tail), you stand an excellent chance in the fight to come.

    On the other hand, being caught slow and low leaves you in a very challenging tactical position, forcing you on the defensive unless you are already sitting on the other guy's 6.

    The nice thing about energy is that one kind can be freely traded for another - a slight dive turns altitude to speed, a quick climb transforms excess speed into an altitude advantage. The use of afterburner transforms your fuel reserve into either speed, altitude, or both. Fuel, however, is expendable, bringing us to recommendation #2...
  2. Fuel is life. In YS, we tend to travel light in terms of fuel. Too much, and the extra weight reduces turn performance. Two little, however, will immediately take you out of the fight, leaving you to beg off for fuel exhaustion, or to make a perilous journey towards the ground while under hostile fire. The most entertaining way to take advantage of your fuel supply will come when both pilots are engaged in a well matched dogfight, with the afterburner going full tilt. Whenever an opportunity arises, turn off the burner for a second or two - such carefully hoarded fuel can provide a few moments, or even a minute or so, of safe flying time after your opponent has succumbed to fuel exhaustion. If the terms of your fight allow, this is an excellent chance to kill a well matched opponent.
  3. Lose sight, lose the fight! No truer words have ever been spoken about air combat. If you don't know where your opponent is, no matter how good your position was a second ago, you are now nothing but prey. If you have a point of view hat switch on your joystick, USE IT! If you use a mouse or cheaper joystick, become familiar with the keyboard point of view set up, and optimize it for your preferred style if needed. There is no excuse for failing to keep sight of your opponent at all times.

    In YS, lag can often be a problem in this department. Continue along the last known path, or fly fast and defensive if you cannot reacquire your target. Keep up a sharp lookout, and re-engage if your position is good enough.
  4. Know your aircraft. Whether you are flying the stock F-16 (a very forgiving, excessively light and powerful dogfighter, with aggressive but unstable trim response) or a Bf-109, your plane will have unique handling characteristics which can help you to win or lose a fight. If you know your plane, and you are familiar with the enemy's plane, you can select tactics which play to your strengths and his weaknesses. The 171st Tomcat is quite fast, and rather agile, with a slightly faster then average gun. The stock Hurricane is very agile and wonderfully well armed, but has relatively little thrust, and so performs poorly in vertical maneuvers. As a general rule, fast, powerful jet fighters like a combination of horizontal and vertical maneuvers against similar aircraft, but rely on heavily vertical maneuvers against propeller fighters and highly agile attack planes. Stock prop planes rely on the horizontal, and their bank of guns, and favor head on passes where accuracy will determine victory in a series of quick jousts.
  5. In all things, practice makes you better, if not quite perfect. the best position in the world will do you no good if you have not learned to read your opponent's intentions from an unusual loss of speed, or if you can't shoot accurately enough in a head on shoot out. Practice as often as you find reasonable, and if you have any aptitude for dogfighting, you will find yourself noticing things faster, and picking up a few tricks of your own.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:10 pm

An extra point: When on YSF, and your plane has post stall manoeuvrability, DON'T USE IT. If a missile is launched at you, the flare will not diverge enough to save you.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by waspe414 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:21 pm

The new flare system now can, depending on the aircraft, save you in this instance.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Good,

A note: If dogfighting vs AI, after the first merge do a 3/4 loop. This gives you an altitude advantage so you can dive on your enemy.

Also, on the head on pass, if you don't kill them fast on the first merge, move or you will collide.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Iceman » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Phoenix wrote:Good,

A note: If dogfighting vs AI, after the first merge do a 3/4 loop. This gives you an altitude advantage so you can dive on your enemy.

Also, on the head on pass, if you don't kill them fast on the first merge, move or you will collide.
Never pull into the vertical on a pass. A very simple trick I like to teach my nuggets is the "Slice".

As the enemy is approaching you and beginning to speed off your horizon, start an early turn, point your nose just a little under the horizon (maybe 10-15 deg) and pull hard. You will maintain a good airspeed and not bleed any, and in this way your plane will remain at it's corner speed and turn the tightest it possibly can.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:05 pm

You know far more than I do, so can you explain the issues with going into the vertical straight away, (any tips would be much appreciated!).

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Bombcat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:32 am

Going vertical in the beginning is bad for a very simple reason - it bleeds a lot more energy then is useful. You sacrifice the energy of your speed to gain altitude, when turning to the side and slightly downward will allow you to put every bit of your energy into the turn, giving you the tightest turn possible in an air-start dogfight. If you have a massive energy advantage against your opponent - if, say, you have a modern jet against an agile but underpowered MiG-15 or P-51, a vertical maneuver will capitalize on your strengths, but against a comparable aircraft, near horizontal maneuvers make best use of your energy to put your nose on target.
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Re: Dogfighting

Post by Phoenix » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:56 pm

Understood, but if their manoeuvrability is better then they will gain the advantage if they do this too.

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Re: Dogfighting

Post by ToxicSkylinesMH10 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:34 am

Ohhhh this is definitely very cool!

All this time of laying off the game, and Ive become quite rusty (Iceman 3-0 Me) = 2 minutes lol :oops: I suck as of now!! BUT!!! With these words of Wisdom and Knowledge I shall swiftly rise to the top of flight!!!!!

MWAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!! :twisted:


ookk......now off to practice my butt off :roll:

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