Raptor vs Flanker

[Crazypilot]

Mod Edit: Split from http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1707

I take back what I said about the F-22's beauty but F-22 vs SU-33?Who would win in terms of air superiority?

[SvenPhantom]

Versus threads will be locked just so you know.

[halberdier25]

Who told you that? See how a moderator had to split it for it to even exist?

[Timmayx]

1 v 1 - Raptor easily. There is nothing in the sky that can touch it. The only advantage the Flanker has is with the Russian's use of greater numbers to defeat others.

A more realistic comparison would be Su-33 vs Typhoon and Raptor vs PAKFA (or whatever the new Rusky jet is going to be called).

In short, CrazyPilot, the Raptor is the current champion of the skies. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

[Honey Badger]

As much as I like the F-22, The F-35 is COMING

Mod Edit: post locked

[Timmayx]

[halberdier25]

Goddammit, guys.

What Timmayx is saying is that the F-35 and F-22 are two wholly different platforms. It'd be like comparing the F-15 to the F-4: one is effectively a whole R&D cycle newer with a completely different mission and set of users.

---

Dearest moderation team,

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Me <3 xoxo

[Bombcat]

Might I just add, for no particularly good reason at all, that I find it quite odd that anyone would wish to compare the F-22 with the Naval Su-33. There are a great many Flanker variants, from the basic Su-27P to the popular -30MKI and -37 models, and the current pinnacle of the type's development, the Su-35BM. Naval variants tend to be compromised in terms of performance, weight, and weapons load.

To conclude - why pick the Sea Flanker? As a comparison to comparable naval fighters, like the F-14D, F/A-18E, and Rafale M, it would be quite useful. When compared to a top of the line land based stealth fighter, however, I think the Su-33 is a fairly poor representative of the series.

[Iceman]

[Dragon029]

Let's not forget the J-20 and soon-to-fly J-16 guys

So far the J-20 is proving difficult to really assess - for example, footage has been showing things like the aircraft pulling medium turns with it's canards pointed downward and elevons pointed upward. We also know that despite this, the aircraft has a CG far forward of the CP and it tends to fly a fair bit with a somewhat high positive angle on its canards during forward flight. These things can be explained, but they themselves show curiosity at Chengdu's methods.

The J-16 is to be a stealth J-11 (Chinese Flanker) and will be somewhat of a competitor to the F-35 or F-15SE (if it ever gets a customer) as a cheap(er) LO platform. It's meant to fly this year, so if they remain on schedule, we'll be seeing it shortly.

[halberdier25]

He didn't ask about those airframes.

[Dragon029]

But while we're on the topic of the F-22 vs PAKFA vs F-35 and Su-33s vs Rafales and Super Hornets, etc I thought we should probably also remember the other 5th gen creator nation at the moment.

[halberdier25]

We have no idea what the PAK FA is capable of yet. And China talks big.

[Dragon029]

Both true - one thing that I haven't seen is what the whole 'digital pilot' feature of the PAK FA is - in digital translations, the term pops up as a sort of noun, but I'm not sure whether they're talking about some sort of advanced autopilot (ground-following flight systems? automatic targeting prioritisation? digital safety features?) or whether the term is more of an adjective and they're just saying that the pilot's control systems will be more digitised like the F-35 or something.
We also don't know exactly what their Phase 2 engines will be like - they've put out target max thrust levels, but there's a chance they could exceed their expectations like the F135 did for P&W. They plan on putting 2.5D thrust vectoring shaped nozzles on with those engines as well, so we don't know what control authority or rear stealth signatures will be like with those added.

As for China - it is definitely possible they'll delay the first flight of the J-16, or it'll receive set-backs, but I personally think that if that happens, it won't be by much - 3 new aircraft (J-10, J-15, J-20) in under a decade ain't bad, even if one of them has less inspiration than a hobo. Then again, there is always the chance the J-16 will be replaced by a J-10C or additional J-20 orders.

[Crazypilot]

Guys I only asked for your opinion remember that!Don't turn this into a SU lovers vs Raptor lovers war of the words.

[halberdier25]

Guys I only asked for your opinion remember that!Don't turn this into a SU lovers vs Raptor lovers war of the words.

Opinions aren't relevant to this: facts are. We're dealing with facts.

[Phoenix]

ok so you cant compare them, but the question that should be placed may be:

"If they were to meet with two equal pilots, who would win?"

I mean, Even the F-15 and 16 can be compared this way.

[halberdier25]

F-22.

[Welshy]

China = Copy, Paste, Enlarge (only aircraft )

[SvenPhantom]

Honestly, the SU-35S and the F-22 would be a fairer comparison. But I gotta hand it to the Raptor. It's stealth will always give it the first look first kill oppertunity. Even in visual range, it's maneuverability exceed that of the flanker. The only real advantage I see from the Su-33. The fact that it's navalized. Other than that there's only 24 of these things compared to 181 Combat ready Raptors.