YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

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YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by vandal » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:27 pm

All user need to understand that here at YSFHQ we do not condone the violation of someone's copyright. If someone creates something, be it a model, song or aerobatic organisation, they OWN the copyright to that. They have a LEGAL copyright to that, and copying them will be breaking the law.

Any mention of YS-VFAT is banned on this site, YSVFAT broke copyright laws as it did not have permission from the creative owner to use the VFAT brand in their name. Breaking copyright law, no matter how small, can lead to LEGAL actions taken against the user and this site. This will be taken seriously by YSFHQ staff members and will be dealt with quickly. Just because you break someone's copyright we will give you the benefit of doubt that you was unaware and give you a chance to stop. If you do not stop then you will get a 3 month ban.

If you wish to aviod this all together our advice is to be original, you will always be known better for your originality rather than your ability to copy. If you want to start a squad, be original don't copy another. If you want to start a VA, give it a fictional name, don't copy a real life one and if you want to start a aerobatic organisation or event be original don't copy another.

This brings us on to the next point of our announcement, respecting the YSFHQ staff. Every member of the YSFHQ staff are in their position due to their experience, knowledge and expertise in their chosen fields. We all have many years of experience in YSFlight, most dating back to YSP1 we have all worked hard to make YSFlight and the English speaking community what it is today. We are by no means saying that demand your respect or even deserve it, what we are saying is that we have enough experience to be in the positions we are hat when we tell you that what you are doing should stop that you should stop. If we tell you to stop something, stop, if you do not agree then you can put your case in a mature way to the staff team. The mature way to put your point to the staff team is NOT to just carry on as if we haven't spoken to you about it. You may not like what we decide but you must respect it and do it, you can always post a topic in the complaints forum if you think we have been to hard or unreasonable with you.

That said, we will not take breaking the law or bringing this site and/or YSFlight into disrepute lightly. We are here to build this site and promote YSFlight in a positive way, copying and annoying members of the 'big boy' sims is not promoting Ysflight in a positive way.

Some of you may know, but for those who don't, this announcement has had to be made after Alpha Star refused to stop using the VFAT brand in his YS-VFAT. This broke VFAT's copyright and the law. After staff asked him to stop he carried on deciding that he was right and we where wrong. He lied to us, telling us that he had permission from members of VFAT. We found out this fact to be a lie, and that the users he named to no be real people. He was banned because of his refusal to follow our advice and later demands to stop using VFAT. He was banned for 3 months for not respecting the authority and wishes of the YSFHQ staff and owners of VFAT. Anyone who breaks copyright laws and disrespects YSFHQ staff can expect a 3 month ban.

Thank you for your cooperation,
VSFHQ admin and moderation team.

Copyright:
noun
1.
the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.


Trademark:
noun
1.
any name, symbol, figure, letter, word, or mark adopted and used by a manufacturer or merchant in order to designate his or her goods and to distinguish them from those manufactured or sold by others. A trademark is a proprietary term that is usually registered with the Patent and Trademark Office to assure its exclusive use by its owner.
2.
a distinctive mark or feature particularly characteristic of or identified with a person or thing.


Plagiarism:
noun
1.
the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work, as by not crediting the author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
something used and represented in this manner: Well-respected publishers are developing a sharper eye for plagiarism in submitted manuscripts.


Respect:
noun
1.
a particular, detail, or point (usually preceded by in ): to differ in some respect.
2.
relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
3.
esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
4.
deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5.
the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by TB1 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:45 pm

Thank you for this post Vandal and I can say safely on behalf of myself and many if not all of the members on YSFHQ that we appreciate everything the staff team do for this community. Thank you very very much for all your hard work.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Bombcat » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:59 pm

On behalf of the staff here, thanks for putting this up, Vandal. I'd just like to reiterate some of your fine points. We don't hate fun, and we're not trying to make anyone's group fail. When we (the admin staff) tell you not to do something, it's because we believe, as a group, that it is for the good of the community. As for the specific issue of Alpha Star and YSVFAT, I'd just like to say that a little originality never hurt anyone. We in the YS community do things differently from other folks, and it's best that our institutions are clearly distinct. YS will generally suffer in comparison to other flight games, and it's best that we don't force the comparison by taking the name of some well established, copy-written and corporately sponsored organization. By building our institutions from scratch, we have a better opportunity to play up our strengths (modest hardware requirements, a simple, beginner friendly simulation, fast pace of play) without stepping on others' toes or encouraging unfavorable comparisons.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Flake » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:10 am

Can I clarify something?

By not using brandnames, Would virtual occraunces be okay? For example, YSFlight Virtual Cathay Pacific or Virtual Jet Blue or something? I have the YSflight Virtual Royal Australian Air Force, and as they are a public serving entity, this is okay, correct? What's the line here?
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Shutter » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:57 am

Simulation of a real world airline is expected and is fine; a group like united airlines could care less. A group like vfat on the other hand, is an original online group that takes flight sims very seriously and has monetary sponsors for what they do. I'm sure you can imagine why they might have a problem with it when some fourteen year old plagiarizes the brand they've spent years building.

Even more aggravating was alpha star's complete disregard of our instructions and open defiance while he was fully aware of the fact that there were legal issues with what he was doing, and that it endangered the existence of the site. (we told him to stop, he lied to us and said he did, started pulling the same shit later on, received a message about our problems with that, disregarded it, got banned)


So as for where the line is: when the entire administrative team is telling you to stop something and you do not, and you are endangering something for a whole lot of other people because you're impossibly selfish, you get banned. This was the case with alpha.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Shutter » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:23 pm

After we have looked through this whole deal in excruciating detail, we have decided to extend the 3 month ban to redeagle for trolling, disrespect, and similar asshattery to alpha star.

Just to any who would claim we weren't fair: both were given a chance to explain their actions (many times for alpha), both were given a chance to have their bans appealed or shortened, and both continued to bullshit us.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by bernholm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:44 am

Wait, what is VFAT?
*I hereby state that I am not intentionally using this name/distinction in any way to infringe copyright whatsoever to the owners*
I think this should be in every post involving the word YSVFAT.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Gunny » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:16 pm

A disclaimer will not help you high jack a copyright name in any way. On the contrary it only shows that you where aware that a copyright for that name already existed and that you where libel for the breach.There is an old truism in American law.(Ignorance of the law is no excuse.).
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Phoenix » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:45 pm

1Q: Does this apply to defunct organizations?

sorry, if its been answered.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Gunny » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:29 pm

It can.In some instance even last beyond the demise of the copyrighter and be passed to there heirs.But in the end it is in the best interests of the would be user to exhaust all avenues of research to find out if it is an active copyright.Because in the eyes of the law the burden of proof falls in the hands of the would be user.
Copyright law is vary complicated and any serious questions should be discussed with a lawyer specializing in the subject.NOT ME.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Shutter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Copyright on the internet is generally a case of "who cares enough to sue us over this?" it hasn't happened on HQ until now.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Neocon » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:55 pm

Some points/questions:

1. According to the US Copyright Office, business names do not get copyright protection. Business names, logos, product names, etc., get protection under trademark laws. I think I read that they have an LLC. Does that give them that protection? If they complained about copyright infringement, I have to wonder if they had even talked to a lawyer. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one online. I only ask questions.

2. Does adding "YS" to indicate a separate organization not make a difference, similar to "YSBA" and YSF versions of real airlines?

3.A majority of us who have painted aircraft have released an addon with company name or logo on it somewhere. Even the stock aircraft includes an "Airbus300", among others.

4. What does this mean and what should we do as we go forward?



I'm not a lawyer, and don't know any lawyers, and I don't have a stake in this site, and if I did I would agree with the actions that have been taken, if only based on the lack of respect alone, but cases like this make me want to crawl in a hole and hide.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Shutter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:11 pm

I'm no lawyer either. There weren't any formal legal threats, we just knew that VFAT were quite unhappy with what was going on. Whether how you're doing it is illegal or not, plagiarism is never cool.

A better parallel to the situation is if Alpha had been releasing other people's addons as his own, lying to the admin team about stopping, and generally just spat in everyone's face. We would have done the same thing, and the original modder would have been just as mad as VFAT was. I think that should illustrate the situation better. It was more an issue of principle and respect than copyright law, though the latter is an unfortunate aspect of it all.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Phoenix » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:14 pm

ok thanks, I only ask as there are always some people who want to do a commemorative group, but this should help.

In short, go look yourself to be safe.

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Shutter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:15 pm

Rule of thumb for these things: we ask you to stop, you stop :lol:

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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Kilo 11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:24 pm

bernholm wrote:Wait, what is VFAT?
*I hereby state that I am not intentionally using this name/distinction in any way to infringe copyright whatsoever to the owners*
I think this should be in every post involving the word YSVFAT.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by NavyGator » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:17 am

Thus the use of the term 'infringement'; the law placed a fringe or a fence
around the intellectual rights of the individual so as to ensure those rights.
Those violating the law are into the fringes thereof, and as such have at
least violated the law, but not necessarily the intellectual-rights of the
individual.
And having the ethics to respect the intellectual rights of those individuals
places these moderators in a higher field than a lot of the other social mediums
currently operating in the on-line world.
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Re: YSVFAT, Copyright law and Respect.

Post by Ace Lord » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:19 am

This whole topic in a nutshell..........

When in doubt, assume it's illegal in the eyes of the Admins.
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