Now this can't go on......

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Now this can't go on......

Post by Welshy » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:20 pm

Dear All Interested in Civilian Flying on YSFlight,
We need some activity hear!!!!

YSVAC is currently the most active place for civilian flying but even that is not active enough. Please become active on the forums and YSF as without you flying the community will die. I myself have been playing YSF for a few years and even though I go through bouts of inactivity due to school or work I have continued to be active when I can. Please feel free to post your comments below.

Links to important civilian flying pages:
YSVAC
YSFHQ Terminal
VA Job board
YSFHQ Official ATC Manual
Links, Tips and Tricks

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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Papa_Goose » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:32 pm

I like Wetzel267's idea about standardized servers http://ysfhq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=193&t=5038. Just 1 server for all VA's and Civies. It will be easier to be involved if every one is in the same place.

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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Welshy » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:36 pm

There are many issues with this:
1 - Connection Speed, people from Austria don't want to log into a server in South Africa when there is one in Germany
2 - Absolute power where the owner has full control
3 - What map? People Like to use their favoured maps...

These are to name but a few
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Midnight Rambler » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:37 pm

welshy wrote:There are many issues with this:
1 - Connection Speed, people from Austria don't want to log into a server in South Africa when there is one in Germany
2 - Absolute power where the owner has full control
3 - What map? People Like to use their favoured maps...

These are to name but a few
Not really. Those points that you raise are excuses, not reasons.

1) Log in speed isn't an issue if the server has; a) decent upload speed (we don't need the speed of light here folks), and b) there isn't 400,000,000 aircraft installed.

2) I don't see an issue with someone who is prepared to spend money on a server, for the enjoyment of others, actually using it and controlling it. I also don't see how people flying for a VA can get paranoid about server owners. What's the worst that can happen? This is coming from someone who has been in many VAs, run many servers and was in charge of civilian flight on YSFHQ.

3) Hawaii is the only map that people ever use. The end.

Seriously though, why wouldn't people fly on the same server? There is hardly anyone left who fly actively any more, why do you want to split those people up and create isolation?
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by wingzfan99 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:48 pm

Papa_Goose wrote:I like Wetzel267's idea about standardized servers http://ysfhq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=193&t=5038. Just 1 server for all VA's and Civies. It will be easier to be involved if every one is in the same place.
I am very close to landing a job with Rackspace.com, which will come with $200/month in credit towards hosting services.

Bottom line, if I get the job, there will be servers.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by decaff_42 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:44 pm

I hope you get the job! It sounds like something that you will enjoy doing. :D
Check out my website YSDecaff for all my tutorials and addon releases.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by VNAF ONE » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:10 pm

Really, until we get a hundred online people or something in YS, we only need 1 or two servers for everything. They will become widely known and more people will get on. No civi only or military only all the time. Make your airliners invincible and everything will be fine and dandy. People can dogfight, do their squadron ops, airlines, mini air shows, just like the old days. The civi servers are way too boring. Even when there's nothing but airliners on a server, it's always fun to have escorts once in a while to make things interesting. Just speaking from the back side of the golden days where everyone was on servers enjoying themselves.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Varren » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:26 pm

VNAF ONE wrote:Really, until we get a hundred online people or something in YS, we only need 1 or two servers for everything. They will become widely known and more people will get on. No civi only or military only all the time. Make your airliners invincible and everything will be fine and dandy. People can dogfight, do their squadron ops, airlines, mini air shows, just like the old days. The civi servers are way too boring. Even when there's nothing but airliners on a server, it's always fun to have escorts once in a while to make things interesting. Just speaking from the back side of the golden days where everyone was on servers enjoying themselves.

Only problem with this is that some VA's do not like any military presence while they're doing a flight. That is why they switched to private servers in the first place.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by VNAF ONE » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:44 pm

Who cares? If you make your planes invincible or whatever, it's not a big deal. It doesn't kill operations. And especially if it's in the interests of keeping everyone together, I'd say it can be dealt with. Yes we've had those cases where we get some douchebag who likes to go filling the sky with golden pixels but like I said, there's a way for VA's to overcome that. If we really want to have more activity, this is pretty much what needs to be done. Obviously, having civilian only servers isn't working. I know that I avoid them because I want to choose whatever to fly besides just civi planes. I can do that stuff offline if I don't want to be bothered.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Midnight Rambler » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:46 am

VNAF ONE wrote:Who cares? If you make your planes invincible or whatever, it's not a big deal. It doesn't kill operations. And especially if it's in the interests of keeping everyone together, I'd say it can be dealt with. Yes we've had those cases where we get some douchebag who likes to go filling the sky with golden pixels but like I said, there's a way for VA's to overcome that. If we really want to have more activity, this is pretty much what needs to be done. Obviously, having civilian only servers isn't working. I know that I avoid them because I want to choose whatever to fly besides just civi planes. I can do that stuff offline if I don't want to be bothered.
Spot on.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Fariiniq » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:31 am

Yep. There should be an official 24/7 YSFHQ server hosted on a good VPS that would be promoted even to outside the community so all the thousands of people downloading YSFlight every week would have a reason to join the community. Servers have always been the main gateway for offline flyers to get involved in the community and it always will be. Let's face it, we're here to fly. In the serverlist, the YSFHQ official server should be highlighted and big. Then there should be a "other servers"- list that should have something like "We are not in any responsible about these servers or their respective content. YSFHQ does not offer support regarding these servers. Feel free to use them at your own discretion and convenience." - type of disclaimer before it.

There should be more YSFHQ offical events and they should all be hosted on this server. A VPS server could hande huge amount of traffic, it could have a backup server and this way we could promote the event to again, people outside the community so they can come check it out. There should be a promotional website and perhaps registration forms or such for big and long events. There should also be monthly events such as ATC. An event should be classified as being an official YSFHQ event by simply contacting staff with info of the event or polling within the community if such event should be organized. It shouldn't have to be from the initiative of the YSFHQ staff. With all do respect.

There's few issues to address tho. Well first of all money isn't an issue, 'cause I know someones gonna come on this thread and be like "VPS MAN! WTF I NO MONEY HAVE". I've been having a high-quality VPS running for a couple of years that costs 30 pounds/month and that used to host for a while the fastest ysflight online server, i think. I'm not saying we should use mine! I'm saying there are people who do afford to pay such a nominal price and even if there wouldn't be we would still manage it even if every active user would donate a dollar! So issue number one: power. This is the biggest one. We can't dismiss this issue. If it would be the YSFHQ official server then the solution would be easy. Every active registered member here has a say on what goes on in the server. Big issues are voted on. You don't vote, you give away your right to affect any decisions. Daily administration and maintanance should be done according to a code of conduct agreed upon together in the community and it should be supervised by community leaders and higher staff. The principle would be very simple. You don't like what's going on in the server? The map? The planes? Make a poll. Use your vote. A democratic server, if you will. And to those who say this isn't necessary, i think those users from back old YSP, can surely remember how frustrating and annoying it was sometimes because power over many issues was in single hands. Everyone needs to feel that they have some sort of control over the server so they feel good using it. Of course there will always be someone who wants to use a map other than hawaii, someone who wants to use laggy planes and someone who is just against every decision no matter would it be a good one in his opinion or bad. That's what we lady's and gentlemen call a freaking democracy. We have to do things according to what opinions gets the most votes. And there should be a minimum amount of votes so things can't be rushed with 3 votes forward before anyone notices a vote has been ongoing. And anyone who is in the minority of votes can feel free to host his own server and have like-minded people flying there but it shouldn't be encouraged by YSFHQ because it kills and it already has killed quite effectively the community effect and community fun from the servers. If i'd want to fly by myself i would do it offline not choose one of the 20 empty servers here. Also there should be more focus once again on 3rd party server programs, their development, use, more effort on new kind of addons and just basicly a freaking REASON for anyone of use to even be here. I mean those are the things that make up a working, populated online community. Servers, addons (planes, maps, weapons, sounds etc but also 3rd party programs and sites.. charts, maps, everything), events and the sense of contributing with like-minded people. A sense we are working to promote this game we love. And doing it together, regardless of our origins, age, skills or such. That used to be the beauty of this community. All coming together to have fun and enjoy! Now we're running a virtually empty community and massaging our egos on how good we fly or manage this contentless community. Content. That's what we need guys. Something to look forward for when you're in the supermarket. Thinking "YAY there's going to be that awesome addon soon, that awesome event and that fun flight to maui with my friend in our VA! Tonight!".

Ugh... much more to be said, but this is already way too long! :D What i said is no offence towards anyone or specially towards this community. It's just the way I see things.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by VNAF ONE » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:06 pm

No really, you got it. That's exactly what we are discussing as of now. I'm glad this topic came up because it's about time we address how dead this game is becoming. I don't know how well the asian side of this game is, but we used to be linked through access to each other's servers. Well, our servers are dead. I have seen one day (which was YSTB practice Friday) where we actually had quite a few people on the server and it made me excited not only to see all my members of course, but to see that the server was drawing attention and a lot of people were on the server flying and talking on teamspeak as well. We need to get back to this. It's been too long. Let's do this!
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Ray » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:37 pm

I agree Fariiniq, a democratic server is the way forward to continue growing the community, and change is really needed.

Since my server is now only running just yslight games, like you Fariiniq I am now in the position to donate it to the community and I really do mean it, it would no longer be my server, it would be our server.
Daily administration and maintenance should be done according to a code of conduct agreed upon together in the community and it should be supervised by community leaders and higher staff.
Notes: Server is currently located in Germany, from UK (bskyb Broadband) I get a ping of 38ms.

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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Midnight Rambler » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:52 am

Fariiniq wrote:Yep. There should be an official 24/7 YSFHQ server hosted on a good VPS that would be promoted even to outside the community so all the thousands of people downloading YSFlight every week would have a reason to join the community. Servers have always been the main gateway for offline flyers to get involved in the community and it always will be. Let's face it, we're here to fly. In the serverlist, the YSFHQ official server should be highlighted and big. Then there should be a "other servers"- list that should have something like "We are not in any responsible about these servers or their respective content. YSFHQ does not offer support regarding these servers. Feel free to use them at your own discretion and convenience." - type of disclaimer before it.

There should be more YSFHQ offical events and they should all be hosted on this server. A VPS server could hande huge amount of traffic, it could have a backup server and this way we could promote the event to again, people outside the community so they can come check it out. There should be a promotional website and perhaps registration forms or such for big and long events. There should also be monthly events such as ATC. An event should be classified as being an official YSFHQ event by simply contacting staff with info of the event or polling within the community if such event should be organized. It shouldn't have to be from the initiative of the YSFHQ staff. With all do respect.

There's few issues to address tho. Well first of all money isn't an issue, 'cause I know someones gonna come on this thread and be like "VPS MAN! WTF I NO MONEY HAVE". I've been having a high-quality VPS running for a couple of years that costs 30 pounds/month and that used to host for a while the fastest ysflight online server, i think. I'm not saying we should use mine! I'm saying there are people who do afford to pay such a nominal price and even if there wouldn't be we would still manage it even if every active user would donate a dollar! So issue number one: power. This is the biggest one. We can't dismiss this issue. If it would be the YSFHQ official server then the solution would be easy. Every active registered member here has a say on what goes on in the server. Big issues are voted on. You don't vote, you give away your right to affect any decisions. Daily administration and maintanance should be done according to a code of conduct agreed upon together in the community and it should be supervised by community leaders and higher staff. The principle would be very simple. You don't like what's going on in the server? The map? The planes? Make a poll. Use your vote. A democratic server, if you will. And to those who say this isn't necessary, i think those users from back old YSP, can surely remember how frustrating and annoying it was sometimes because power over many issues was in single hands. Everyone needs to feel that they have some sort of control over the server so they feel good using it. Of course there will always be someone who wants to use a map other than hawaii, someone who wants to use laggy planes and someone who is just against every decision no matter would it be a good one in his opinion or bad. That's what we lady's and gentlemen call a freaking democracy. We have to do things according to what opinions gets the most votes. And there should be a minimum amount of votes so things can't be rushed with 3 votes forward before anyone notices a vote has been ongoing. And anyone who is in the minority of votes can feel free to host his own server and have like-minded people flying there but it shouldn't be encouraged by YSFHQ because it kills and it already has killed quite effectively the community effect and community fun from the servers. If i'd want to fly by myself i would do it offline not choose one of the 20 empty servers here. Also there should be more focus once again on 3rd party server programs, their development, use, more effort on new kind of addons and just basicly a freaking REASON for anyone of use to even be here. I mean those are the things that make up a working, populated online community. Servers, addons (planes, maps, weapons, sounds etc but also 3rd party programs and sites.. charts, maps, everything), events and the sense of contributing with like-minded people. A sense we are working to promote this game we love. And doing it together, regardless of our origins, age, skills or such. That used to be the beauty of this community. All coming together to have fun and enjoy! Now we're running a virtually empty community and massaging our egos on how good we fly or manage this contentless community. Content. That's what we need guys. Something to look forward for when you're in the supermarket. Thinking "YAY there's going to be that awesome addon soon, that awesome event and that fun flight to maui with my friend in our VA! Tonight!".

Ugh... much more to be said, but this is already way too long! :D What i said is no offence towards anyone or specially towards this community. It's just the way I see things.
Lots of That.
VNAF ONE wrote:No really, you got it. That's exactly what we are discussing as of now. I'm glad this topic came up because it's about time we address how dead this game is becoming. I don't know how well the asian side of this game is, but we used to be linked through access to each other's servers. Well, our servers are dead. I have seen one day (which was YSTB practice Friday) where we actually had quite a few people on the server and it made me excited not only to see all my members of course, but to see that the server was drawing attention and a lot of people were on the server flying and talking on teamspeak as well. We need to get back to this. It's been too long. Let's do this!
All of that.
Ray wrote:I agree Fariiniq, a democratic server is the way forward to continue growing the community, and change is really needed.

Since my server is now only running just yslight games, like you Fariiniq I am now in the position to donate it to the community and I really do mean it, it would no longer be my server, it would be our server.
Daily administration and maintenance should be done according to a code of conduct agreed upon together in the community and it should be supervised by community leaders and higher staff.

Notes: Server is currently located in Germany, from UK (bskyb Broadband) I get a ping of 38ms.

Well the offer is there!
Also this.

So who's doing it?
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by NightRaven » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:15 pm

Not me, that's for sure.

But I'm not here to answer that question.

But this topic's got my attention and I really think it's a great idea. This should be done asap... as soon as we can find a host.

On a side note... What happened to the old days? I am quite sure the game was much more active back then. What happened that made the game all of sudden so...dead?

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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by VNAF ONE » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:10 pm

I'm sure a new topic will be arising soon but I think it's awesome that you guys are willing to pay for a server for all of us to use and I'd be happy to send a big contribution when needed. I just want to know if there's a way we can have multiple admins for this server that can log in to it and add addons, change the map once in a while for variety (to a list of approved (voted on) stock or low lag addon maps), and do all of that. Also, we need to be sure the server will have little down time due to issues. We can't have a server going down every 2 days for no reason. If maintenance or something is to be done, it has to be short and everyone should be notified. Otherwise, we should be shooting for something along the lines of eric's server but with the democracy and all that and it belonging to everyone.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Ray » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:35 pm

As part of the agreement multiple admins would be able to log into server, and of course little to no downtime would be mandatory.

I will be in touch with Fariiniq and discuss at the upcoming ysfhq staff meeting.
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Fariiniq » Wed May 01, 2013 2:21 am

Yo guys! How's it hanging? :D

Ray I got your PM but I thought I'd respond here publicly so everyone can be part of the conversation :) :) Not ignoring you haha :D

Well I guess to make this thing happen what we need to do is write down the concept (compile everyone's thought in this topic together) and post it in a new topic where there's a poll. And of course ask YSFHQ staff to respond to it too :D And if it "goes trough" me, ray and wingz could in a quite fast manner I believe set the technical stuff up (VPS, addons etc). And voila, then it's a matter of a little bit of testing, marketing and having fun flying around! :D

Your thoughts?

Oh and:
Ray is correct :) When you have a VPS, multiple admins is easy. Many people can access the server with the VPS remote access login at a time of their chosing and administrate. Me and welshy did that for some time. And uptime of the VPS is 99%. But YSF itself might jam sometimes so maintanance is of course required. But it should be easily managable when you have many people taking care of it :D Specially from different time zones ;)
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by Fariiniq » Wed May 01, 2013 3:51 am

Sorry for double. New info :roll:

I decided to write a draft
DRAFT 1.0

Concept of an official YSFlight Headquarters server

INTRODUCTION
To bring the online community surrounding the YSFlight Simulator to it’s best abilities, capabilities and full potential we propose that an official YSFlight Headquarters multipurpose server should be formed and administrated as described in the following way .

PURPOSE AND OBJECTIVES
We feel that our relatively small community should not be separated to bits and pieces. We should all be able to enjoy flying online at a central server at any time of our choosing (24/7). All kinds of pilots, planes & missions should be welcomed regardless of any affiliation with a squadron or virtual airline. This would in our opinion increase activity in the community and in simple terms bring the fun back. In addition we feel that this would attract a substantial number of new active community members. For different kind of users to be able to use the mentioned server with each other in a welcomed and friendly atmosphere, we feel that the server should be run under democratic terms. It would theoretically be equally owned by all active community members. For convenience, maintenance and daily administration should not be repeatedly voted upon but instead should be executed according to a code of administration; which would be voted upon by the community as a whole. This code of administration should be revised regularly to maintain the operation of the server to the liking and preferences of it’s users. The administration team should follow crucial decision such as map & addon choices according to a vote cast publicly in the community. And in addition other bigger decision should be voted on publicly and transparently in the community.

THE ADMINISTRATION
As mentioned, while everyone has a say in how the server operates we need to have a small administration team that takes care of the day-to-day administration. The team should include 3 equal “Server Administrator”s. These administrators would be chosen at the same time of voting the code of administration and the administrators should also be revised when the code is. For the purpose of events or such the team would have the right to nominate 1-5 “Server Moderators” that would help the team under their supervision. In administrational disagreements the team will cast a vote and the 2 winning votes overrule the 1 losing vote. Moderators do not have a right to vote. Even the smallest administrational issues can though be taken to a community-wide vote if even one community member makes the initiative to request for such a vote.

YSFHQ AFFILIATION
We propose that YSFHQ would accept this server as it’s main YSFlight online server. This should eg. mean that all YSFHQ events should be held at this server. Also YSFHQ would commit to promote this server within it’s capabilities and not give direct support to unofficial servers. Other servers should though be held valuable and naturally be allowed to operate inside the community. We request that YSFHQ would provide a forum for the administration team of this server to communicate and smoothly exchange information. Naturally following the democratic guidelines of the server, this forum would be accessible for all YSFHQ members for ultimate transparency in operating the server.

TECHNICAL DETAILS
The server should run from a Virtual Private Server. The VPS should be in the name of one of the Server Administrators. Payments should be handled by the Server Administrators in any type of agreement they wish to make. The administrators encourage community members that which to support the server to send contributions to the administrations. The administrator that holds the VPS should share the remote access information to the 2 other administrators. This information should naturally be subject to an ethical non-disclosure agreement. If everyone agrees with that then I think we're ready to go! :D We just need to poll about what addons people want etc. build the code of administration and we have to setup the server :)
Me: "Come on! Come on coward! Insult me!" - User: "Okay. You're a moron!" - Me: "BANHAMMERED!" *permaban*

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TheJuli
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Re: Now this can't go on......

Post by TheJuli » Sun May 12, 2013 2:33 pm

NightRaven wrote:Not me, that's for sure.
On a side note... What happened to the old days? I am quite sure the game was much more active back then. What happened that made the game all of sudden so...dead?
I don't know what to say but my thoughts on this are because most of us and the world are getting better computers and the era of low-spec pc, from when the game was made, has gone and people are trying to get some good looking games with many functionalities and some people (like me) try to get payware games. but for me is the low spec ability of this game thats not getting so much attention.

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