Good News // Bad News

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Good News // Bad News

Post by iqmal_97 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:08 pm

The good news:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/ ... 0D20130918

Boeing's stretched 787-9 Dreamliner makes first flight
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A longer version of Boeing Co's (BA.N) Dreamliner successfully completed its first flight on Tuesday, passing a key milestone for a plane expected to be more profitable for Boeing to sell and its customers to operate than the current production model.

The 787-9 jet, which landed at 4:18 pm PST (2318 GMT) at Boeing Field in Seattle, has room for 290 passengers, 40 more than the original 787-8 jetliner, and has about 300 more nautical miles of range.

The flight brought no immediate bad news for a plane that has been plagued by problems from minor issues with its brakes to electrical panel fires and overheating batteries that caused the 787-8 fleet to be grounded for three months earlier this year while Boeing redesigned the battery system.
-Reuters
On the bad news:

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20 ... CSAR-helos

Air Force considers scrapping A-10s, KC-10s, F-15Cs, CSAR helos
Faced with steep budget cuts and the desire to keep existing procurement initiatives on track, the Air Force is considering scrapping its entire fleet of A-10 attack jets and KC-10 tankers, according to multiple military and defense sources.

Also on the chopping block are F-15C fighters and a planned $6.8 billion purchase of new combat search-and-rescue helicopters, these sources say.

While these proposals are far from final, the options show the magnitude of the decisions facing Air Force leadership as the service wrestles with the prospect of cutting billions of dollars in planned spending over the next decade.
-MilitaryTimes
Well, that made me wide eyed for a sec. Never knew they were this desperate to save costs.
Last edited by iqmal_97 on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by decaff_42 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:19 pm

Quite frankly, putting all the A2A in the hands of the F-22 which is still working out problems, seems foolish.

With the focus on Asia, that big ocean will need to be crossed, Planes need fuel to do that, and tankers give fuel...

The CSAR helios, i can sorta understand, but the A-10s????

Those aircraft are useful and effective, probably more so than any wild weasel F-16s or F-18s in Ground support.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Svarttrost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:44 pm

Very unsettling news. Without KC-10, the USAF will significantly reduce it's deployment options. And the Warthog is their A2G workhorse. Was it so costly to use them?
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Bombcat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:15 pm

The argument, reasonably made, is that you need to get rid of an entire supply chain to see significant savings. The F-15C's are quite old, and F-15E's or even new build F-15K's, could pick up at least some of their air to air slack if required. The A-10's would be a particularly sore loss, but several interesting options, such as moving these planes from the USAF to the US Army budget, the adoption of lighter, cheaper dedicated CAS planes, and the use of drones, could plug much of that gap. The threat of massed armor is much less than it once was, and the increasing availability of hellfire and/or brimstone armed aircraft could address some part of the loss of A-10 capabilities.

Clearly, this situation is far from ideal, but most other nations must make do with far, far less.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Welshy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:01 pm

KC-10 - no real loss for the USAF, just USN/USMC
F-15 - not gonna happen
A-10 - no loss at all for USAF but for Army and USMC
CSAR - Actually would be canceling HH-XX

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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Gunny » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:29 pm

I never have been able to understand the screwup with the A-10 not being assigned to the Navy/Marine Corps inventory.I guess it was a choice between the AV8 or the A-10.My opinion the AV8 was a bad choice.A developmental dead end as apposed to the A-10.The grunts are going to miss it big time ;)
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by iqmal_97 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:45 pm

Edited my first post some source links. Just in case you wanted to read it further.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Welshy » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:36 pm

Gunny wrote:I never have been able to understand the screwup with the A-10 not being assigned to the Navy/Marine Corps inventory.I guess it was a choice between the AV8 or the A-10.My opinion the AV8 was a bad choice.A developmental dead end as apposed to the A-10.The grunts are going to miss it big time ;)
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Venom » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:19 am

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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Monoceros » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:38 am

Whoever did this in the first place is clearly not capable of thinking about the consequences that will bring about if this going to happen. Getting rid of specialized aircraft and dumping the burden on cumbersome aircraft that can't perform their initial mission (getting rid of F-14 and giving fleet defense to the superhornet when it can't even fulfill any role) and giving the A2A aspect all to the F-22 is a really big mistake. What's next? Giving the role of CAS, fleet defense, suppression and CAP to the F-35, an aircraft that's not even in service?

I have a feeling that all this "corner cutting, money saving, budgeting" is just double talk for "I want more money in my pockets".
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Welshy » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Are you forgetting the fact that the F-15 still does loads of the A2A and a lot of the CAS will be undertaken by the F-15E

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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Eric » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:03 pm

Considering the deep cuts they seem to be regularly making, this may prove to be quite a viable option: http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/jets/ ... body-asked
However, as the F-22/F-35 projects are still ongoing, they might continue to spend billions on replacing older, still viable jets with these.

Quite frankly, the defense dept. has bigger problems than to be worrying about what jets they should discontinue/buy.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by decaff_42 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:41 pm

An interesting plane. I like the F-14 look and the tail end looks vaguely familiar to some other low budget supersonic private aircraft...forget the name.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Welshy » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:21 pm

The Saker S-1

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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by vandal » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:29 pm

Obviously looking at this from a British perspective. Basically, the point of view "Why have multiple aircraft doing the same role?"
KC-10 - Will be replaced by the KC-46
F-15C - Like Bombcat said, it's old. They still have the F-15E, F-16 and F-22's to cover it's role.
A-10 - Any fixed wing aircraft carrying the right missile can kill tanks. Apache gunships are more than able to offer close air guns for Army.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by Eric » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:26 pm

If you want to know how much various defense assets cost, check out this report: http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/653379.pdf
The numbers are absolutely insane. I can now see why we have a $1 trillion budget.
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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by RzB » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:15 am

The F-35 program. What a waste of money...

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Re: Good News // Bad News

Post by iqmal_97 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:20 pm

RzB wrote:The F-35 program. What a waste of money...
Actually, I can elaborate a bit on that. Taking a direct quote from GIZMODO.com
[tabs][tabs:1st quote ]“Most of the risk on this program when we signed this contract in early 2001 was on the government squarely. Cost risk. Technical risk. Perfect example: in the development program,we pay Lockheed Martin whatever it costs them to do a particular task. And if they fail at that task, then we pay them to fix it. And they don’t lose anything.
[tabs:2nd quote ]"The political process that keeps the Joint Strike Fighter airborne has never stalled. The program was designed to spread money so far and so wide—at last count, among some 1,400 separate subcontractors, strategically dispersed among key congressional districts—that no matter how many cost overruns, blown deadlines, or serious design flaws, it would be immune to termination. It was, as bureaucrats say, “politically engineered.”[/tabs]
So, in other words, they knew the risks involved and are prepared for the consequences or is it the US government's mentality of "screw the costs, let's go on with it"?

Oh and also, this sin't the first time that an air force is axed by budget cuts during the 21st century.
The French took it hard, too. Keep in mind this was last year's report. I don't know how they're doing currently.
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