Farewell A-10's

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Farewell A-10's

Post by VNAF ONE » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:39 pm

Well, it's sad to know that it's really going to happen but it's about time to say goodbye to the A-10 Thunderbolt II/Warthog. The US Military leaders have been debating and taking measures over the last few years to remove the A-10 from the USAF inventory. They claim the program is expensive and non-essential to the US Air Force's future mission. The next few years (in my opinion) up to about 2020 will see the end of the A-10.

Below are some sources you could use to basically see that it's not looking good at all for the A-10 as well as little motivation and information about what this warplane is meant to do. Keep comments non-political, it's not our job to decide.

[BBvideo 560,340]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGcn2XGr48[/BBvideo]

The plan to shrink the US budget that also cuts some other cool military programs and such

DOD aims to scrap A-10 to keep F-35 alive in new budget

Yes, it's a lot of political and technical talk but dumbed down, the military's budget is really high and they need to chop off some arms and legs to save the whole. The A-10 just happens to be in the crossfire.
Map showing the USAF plans to cut about 500 aircraft by Fiscal Year 19
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by megaprime13 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:06 pm

Well, it's not like the A-10 would stay in service forever anyway. Still pretty bummer doe. :|
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by decaff_42 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:12 pm

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPP!!!
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Ace Lord » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:54 pm

The B-36 was the "Billion Dollar Blunder" back in the day, now we have the "Trillion Dollar Trash Can" in the form of the F-35. Next thing you know the USAF inventory will be entirely orbit-based weapons aside from fighter planes.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Gunny » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:59 pm

Just my own personnel opinion but replacing a dedicated ground attack A/C(A-10)for a so called multi-role A/C(F-35)seems to me to be a mistake.Where the A-10 can get down in the dirt and use its cannon with the targets the F-35 has to maintain a higher altitude because of its higher speeds and missiles and lends itself to friendly fire accidents.Not to many ground units have the capability of IFF as yet.And loiter time definitely has suffered a hit.I know its inevitable for the A-10 to be retired but I think it is a mistake to retire it without a real replacement for it.I don't think the F-35 is up to the task in a pitched close quarters ground battle.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Kujo » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:05 pm

+1 Definetely agree
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by vandal » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:10 pm

Gunny wrote:Just my own personnel opinion but replacing a dedicated ground attack A/C(A-10)for a so called multi-role A/C(F-35)seems to me to be a mistake.Where the A-10 can get down in the dirt and use its cannon with the targets the F-35 has to maintain a higher altitude because of its higher speeds and missiles and lends itself to friendly fire accidents.Not to many ground units have the capability of IFF as yet.And loiter time definitely has suffered a hit.I know its inevitable for the A-10 to be retired but I think it is a mistake to retire it without a real replacement for it.I don't think the F-35 is up to the task in a pitched close quarters ground battle.
I bet when the RAF boys get their hands on them they'll be getting some dirt on the belley!
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Bombcat » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:24 am

The retirement of a well liked and capable aircraft will always be an occasion for some concern, particularly when there is no direct replacement in the pipeline. We should remember, however, that any military aircraft, no matter how remarkable, is simply one platform in a family of systems. While the GAU-8 has certainly proved it's worth, guided weaponry has come a long way since the 1970's, and today weapons in the class of the Hellfire and Brimstone may well offer superior performance in the tank killing role for which the Warthog and it's cannon were designed. In a benign environment, other aircraft, and even drones, can take on much of the persistent supporting fires mission. In contested airspace, the A-10's survivability was always doubtful, even with it's legendary durability. While I will certainly miss the A-10's distinctive profile and legendary capabilities, I am not particularly worried that the future conduct of the close air support mission will fall solely to a single poorly optimized platform. The F-35 will play it's part, as will the F-15E fleet, Navy Super Hornets, Army Apaches, numerous drones, and the attack aircraft from whichever allies the US may fight alongside.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by decaff_42 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:31 am

I never really thought of considering the weaponry advances. Its an interesting point to think about.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Copperhead » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Though highly doubtful, I'm hoping the Army get's retired A-10s from the USAF. I honestly think they should'v had em in the first place...
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by VNAF ONE » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:46 am

The Army would of course benefit from having A-10's in the combat world. However, the Army has practically no way of handling a fleet of such fixed wing air craft logistically or in terms of manpower. The Army would have to completely create its own divisions or squadrons or whatever from scratch and build long airstrips to accommodate them. I think they would rather have something smaller, cheaper, and logistically more realistic to the Army's mission. The other services are there for anything else they might need.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by CalvT » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:16 pm

It is also cheaper (and simpler?) to buy and maintain fleets of drones such as predators, which can do a similar job to the A-10. I don't know how many of you have seen the promo for the new drone which is as good as a raptor, but you can buy 25 of them for the same price as a raptor? I think its called the avenger. It would be a similar ting in the case of the A-10. A fleet of drones. I still love the A-10, wish I had one....

-- Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:16 pm --

Found the avenger if any of you are intrested
http://www.ga-asi.com/products/aircraft/predator_c.php
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Copperhead » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:36 pm

Yeah, the Avenger is also known as the "Predator C", it's kinda like a big stealth carrier variant of the MQ-9 Reaper. The Avenger has been one of my favorites, one of the only drones I find cooler is SAAB SHARC. ImageImage
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by vandal » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:23 pm

The bottom line is this:
It's not the cold war any more, there isn't an 'enemy' that is in a race with you to bigger and more destructive weapons and ways to counter your new weapons. There is no longer such thing as 'unlimited budget' when it comes to defence, they now need to operate within a budget. This means that single role aircraft are a thing of the past.
Tankers now need to be able to transport troops and freight.
Your dog fighters now need to be able to deliver bombs.
Your ground attack aircraft now need to be able to carry out reconnaissance missions.

The youngest A-10's are thirty years old, they're old and need to rest.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Gunny » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:11 pm

And on a related note drone = sitting duck
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-inter ... 30584.html
Yet to be confirmed.But the Russian bear still has teeth my friends.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by VNAF ONE » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:19 am

Regardless of the way the theatre of war is changing, the A-10 unlike some of its counterparts in similar situations, still has a purpose. The purpose the A-10 was designed for is one that is highly adaptable and I still think this old bird has some kick left in it. I tend to argue that there is virtually no need for such heavy conventional strategic bombers like the B-52 anymore, and that such missions should be left to more capable aircraft like the B-1B which is faster, newer, more advanced, and can carry a heavier payload of smart weapons than the B-52 as well. If there is a place to start getting rid of things, that's a big chunk to look at too.

In other words, some things don't quite add up right now and I think the US military is in the middle of figuring it all out. Meanwhile, the A-10 may not be the only thing we see going away.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Dragon029 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:33 am

vandal wrote:The bottom line is this:
It's not the cold war any more, there isn't an 'enemy' that is in a race with you to bigger and more destructive weapons and ways to counter your new weapons.
I will say that this isn't entirely correct - there's definitely no requirement to defend your nation and partners against the likes of the Soviet Union, but as far as being in a race of weaponry, there is an arms race in the aerospace industry and somewhat in the ballistic missile area as well.
VNAF ONE wrote:Regardless of the way the theatre of war is changing, the A-10 unlike some of its counterparts in similar situations, still has a purpose. The purpose the A-10 was designed for is one that is highly adaptable and I still think this old bird has some kick left in it. I tend to argue that there is virtually no need for such heavy conventional strategic bombers like the B-52 anymore, and that such missions should be left to more capable aircraft like the B-1B which is faster, newer, more advanced, and can carry a heavier payload of smart weapons than the B-52 as well. If there is a place to start getting rid of things, that's a big chunk to look at too.

In other words, some things don't quite add up right now and I think the US military is in the middle of figuring it all out. Meanwhile, the A-10 may not be the only thing we see going away.
It's all because there are various points that certain systems accrue for or against themselves; the B-1B for example, while far more capable than the B-52, is also a lot more expensive to operate, while the Buff is still capable of performing electronic warfare over areas, as well as being a cheap bomb truck when required.

That said, it's also because there are new systems on the horizon like the Next Generation Bomber, which should replace part of the existing fleet, as well as other programs that will replace the A-10, etc with a combination of new systems.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Zack » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:51 am

oh but dont care about u-2s goin to the scrapper ok

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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by VNAF ONE » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:48 am

I am definitely confident that the U-2 program is obsolete. We have too many other methods of surveillance available such as the Global Hawk, and more systems in the near future such as proposals for supersonic aircraft designed to fly at even higher levels of the atmosphere. That program I am not worried about, though it's still sad to see that go.
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Re: Farewell A-10's

Post by Dragon029 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:28 am

I do also agree that the U-2 is obsolete, but I will point out that the U-2 has a significantly larger / heavier payload capability than the Global Hawk, which means it can utilise larger / more powerful antennas, cameras, etc.

Still electronics get smaller and I'm sure the USAF won't be missing out on much.
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