Squad combat stagnation

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Midnight Rambler » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:18 am

I think this thread has become a personification of the combat portion of YS. Plenty of talk about what's wrong with it, but no actual action about it. Also, I'm the first one to say that I have no answers, or any ability, to help fix the situation.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Bombcat » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:40 pm

Before we can take specific steps to address the problem, it helps for that problem to be properly identified. That part has largely been done, and it may fall to other topics to actually begin the task of rebuilding.

As for Prince Darkstar's input - I am aware that he is not the only one who has a negative view of squadrons and their servers, but his complaints point to everything wrong with our community for quite some time. There should definitely be servers that facilitate different styles of play - combat, civilian, and a largely harmonious mix. As small as our community is, there is still no reason we should voluntarily limit ourselves to one or two servers, or a single type of server. And yes, I believe that some folks simply won't be welcome on certain servers, and would do well to stay away. This is not looking to any one person's experiences - people have been horrible in the past on all sides of this issue, but accepting stagnation, or death, because activity is not always positive for everyone is not the answer.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Margatroid » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:47 pm

PR1NC3 D4RK5T4R wrote:I'm just gonna say something here.

Encouraging the return of combat YS is essentially saying that you want things to be violent again. You're saying that you want squad wars...really? Or even worse, squad servers...
I have a little story about squad servers...

Flash back to 2011-early 2012 (and bear in mind, this was when I was only 11, and I knew very little about aircraft and how they worked). The 171st server was the most active on YS at the time, with Fariiniq and Eric running close behind.
After being trolled with a lot on Fariiniq's server, one day I had decided I had had it, and went on a rampage with Major's UFO, obliterating the server.

Soon after the 171st sees this, and boom, I'm officially hated for releasing my anger on them. Mid-2011 rolls by, and Gasman and his crew start tracking me down on the 171st server and start vulching/civ-killing/whatever in an attempt to run me out of YS. Through the whole shit fest, Iceman and the rest of the 171st don't even try to help. No, they join in fucking around with me, adding onto the growing hate I had for the 171st, and YS in general.

I only found peace when that godforsaken server was overtaken by 42south and shut down.

Jump forward to now, and we finally have some sort of peace with the death of combat YS in general. Except for the occasional rule breakers, its been smooth jazz.

The return of squad-operated servers like the 171st is something that I'm not sticking around for. Do one thing wrong and you'll be at your wits' end with the shitstorm.
so basically, youre saying you want the entirety of squad combat, one of the most pivotal parts of YS, to stay dead... ...because you had a bad experience with one squad (a squad which is now basically dead in the water so to speak)?

okay, yeah sure, me and the other 171st did kill you a lot on the servers, but you probably wont see that nowadays because nearly the entire squad, including Ice, have left YS. As far as I know, Bombcat, Doomsday and Copperhead are the only ones still in and knowing the 171st well, I can say those three are quite tranquil compared to Ice and his gang. And don't bother pointing out that im here, because i left the 171st a year ago.
Midnight Rambler wrote:I think this thread has become a personification of the combat portion of YS. Plenty of talk about what's wrong with it, but no actual action about it. Also, I'm the first one to say that I have no answers, or any ability, to help fix the situation.
yeah im gonna be completely honest.. i dont know either, but i would say its best to start things off a new (ie new squads need to take the initiative instead of the 171st, 49th and RPFS, and those three names need to stay on the sidelines or stay dead). at least the 323rd and 57th exist though. if 57th bothers building up we might see some activity between the two squads.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by David » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:06 pm

I think that we should all just find a good night, get on 42South or the Winchester and have a laugh. Do some 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3. Just get together to fight and fly.

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Margatroid » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:06 pm

well that wont really revive combat for the long run but id be down for it (if i had a joystick with me. welp)
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by David » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:32 pm

Yeah Sent, its a bit of a quick fix, but it worked last year. Me and Dan would organize a couple of combat events once a fortnight on our server (The Winchester) and it attracted a few people. For a couple of weeks we did an occupation of Atsugi event and had a crap-ton of odd targets placed in strategic positions to take out.

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Doomsday » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:59 pm

VNAF ONE wrote:Things like the blacklist are what we need more of. There needs to be more incentive for combat to exist. It used to be as simple a task as escorting a certain VA on their routes.
Shutter, Bombcat and I tried having a system where there were two centralized teams consisting people from different squads, people not in squads, etc. and have them compete against each other in terms of A2A and A2G combat. Died due to lack of interest and not enough people (http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=139&t=4829)

I tried starting up the blacklist, but quickly died due to lack of interest. (http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=139&t=5224)

Tried starting up Squad Wars, lack of interest. (http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=4489)

Bombcat and I created the Combat Reporting HQ, it was used frequently for the first several months when it was made, but now there hasn’t been a post there in almost 4 months. (http://forum.ysfhq.com/viewforum.php?f=244)

Kinda see a pattern?
PR1NC3 D4RK5T4R wrote: Encouraging the return of combat YS is essentially saying that you want things to be violent again. You're saying that you want squad wars...really? Or even worse, squad servers...
I have a little story about squad servers...

Flash back to 2011-early 2012 (and bear in mind, this was when I was only 11, and I knew very little about aircraft and how they worked). The 171st server was the most active on YS at the time, with Fariiniq and Eric running close behind.
After being trolled with a lot on Fariiniq's server, one day I had decided I had had it, and went on a rampage with Major's UFO, obliterating the server.

Soon after the 171st sees this, and boom, I'm officially hated for releasing my anger on them. Mid-2011 rolls by, and Gasman and his crew start tracking me down on the 171st server and start vulching/civ-killing/whatever in an attempt to run me out of YS. Through the whole shit fest, Iceman and the rest of the 171st don't even try to help. No, they join in fucking around with me, adding onto the growing hate I had for the 171st, and YS in general.
The return of squad-operated servers like the 171st is something that I'm not sticking around for. Do one thing wrong and you'll be at your wits' end with the shitstorm.
Your behaviors flying around on a cheatplane on an IFF other than “1” is the fastest way to become extremely hated by many people. Especially the fact you attempted to be “server police” on the 171st server, you would sit on runways on an IFF other than “1” and your autogunners would pretty much vulch anyone who wasn’t on the same IFF as you. You even posted a “tribute video” of 9/11 which was only a 30 second video of you ramming a plane into a tower in a different flight sim. The 171st did not have any remorse for you when this Gasman showed up and gave you a taste of your own medicine.

On a personal note, if you people do wish for combat to gain some traction again, start posting in combat related threads. When more people see that there are people fighting on the servers, it will give them incentives to join the fight. When there is no activity on YSFHQ towards combat, then everyone has the mindset that combat is dead. Want combat to come back? Then you will have to do more than just going on the servers, shooting at a couple people and ground targets and think that’s it.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Shiny Rice » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:01 pm

Well. I'll get on with recruiting so we can have some proper battles.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Darris XTMRage » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Good lord. I thought I could finally leave this place, but it seems this is going to become a TR-171st/TA/whatever matter...
Doomsday wrote:Your behaviors flying around on a cheatplane on an IFF other than “1” is the fastest way to become extremely hated by many people.
Try not to be a total asshat on a server that has cheatplanes installed. I hear it stops people from going on rampages.
Doomsday wrote:Especially the fact you attempted to be “server police” on the 171st server, you would sit on runways on an IFF other than “1” and your autogunners would pretty much vulch anyone who wasn’t on the same IFF as you.
Refer to said reply above. Also, ever thought of changing IFFs and taking down the cheatplane yourself?
Doomsday wrote:You even posted a “tribute video” of 9/11 which was only a 30 second video of you ramming a plane into a tower in a different flight sim.
You have to be an idiot to be able to call a recreation video a "tribute video".
Doomsday wrote:The 171st did not have any remorse for you when this Gasman showed up and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
Wow, you think.

As for the actual topic at hand: I really don't care about combat YS, as I'm mostly a civilian pilot. I can't really see a real use for combat squads except for things like combat training.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Margatroid » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:24 pm

Darris XTMRage wrote:Good lord. I thought I could finally leave this place, but it seems this is going to become a TR-171st/TA/whatever matter...
Doomsday wrote:Your behaviors flying around on a cheatplane on an IFF other than “1” is the fastest way to become extremely hated by many people.
Try not to be a total asshat on a server that has cheatplanes installed. I hear it stops people from going on rampages.
Doomsday wrote:Especially the fact you attempted to be “server police” on the 171st server, you would sit on runways on an IFF other than “1” and your autogunners would pretty much vulch anyone who wasn’t on the same IFF as you.
Refer to said reply above. Also, ever thought of changing IFFs and taking down the cheatplane yourself?
Doomsday wrote:You even posted a “tribute video” of 9/11 which was only a 30 second video of you ramming a plane into a tower in a different flight sim.
You have to be an idiot to be able to call a recreation video a "tribute video".
Doomsday wrote:The 171st did not have any remorse for you when this Gasman showed up and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
Wow, you think.

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Darris XTMRage wrote:As for the actual topic at hand: I really don't care about combat YS, as I'm mostly a civilian pilot. I can't really see a real use for combat squads except for things like combat training.
then what are you even doing in this topic? what happens here has absolutely nothing to do with civilian YS, will not affect civilian YS in any way and should not concern you.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Midnight Rambler » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:30 pm

Darris XTMRage wrote:Good lord. I thought I could finally leave this place, but it seems this is going to become a TR-171st/TA/whatever matter...
Zip it. Your assumption doesn't really do anything for the conversation and you're baiting for a response.
Darris XTMRage wrote:
Doomsday wrote:Your behaviors flying around on a cheatplane on an IFF other than “1” is the fastest way to become extremely hated by many people.
Try not to be a total asshat on a server that has cheatplanes installed. I hear it stops people from going on rampages.
That's just a positive feedback loop. You're creating more stimulus and a proportionately bigger response. There should be no reason to hover above a STP and shoot people 'for the lolz'. You just ruin the game for a lot of other people.
Darris XTMRage wrote:
Doomsday wrote:Especially the fact you attempted to be “server police” on the 171st server, you would sit on runways on an IFF other than “1” and your autogunners would pretty much vulch anyone who wasn’t on the same IFF as you.
Refer to said reply above. Also, ever thought of changing IFFs and taking down the cheatplane yourself?
The whole term cheatplane is there for a reason. Who wants to chase the UFO, be killed many times, and finally kill it only to have it spawn 2 seconds later. That plane in particular is bad because of the auto gunner and huge speed. Essentially anyone could grab it and kill an entire server.
Darris XTMRage wrote:
Doomsday wrote:You even posted a “tribute video” of 9/11 which was only a 30 second video of you ramming a plane into a tower in a different flight sim.
You have to be an idiot to be able to call a recreation video a "tribute video".
I've never seen it, but some people may find it distasteful. Such an iconic event can have very varied responses to those that experienced it.
Darris XTMRage wrote:
Doomsday wrote:The 171st did not have any remorse for you when this Gasman showed up and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
Wow, you think.

As for the actual topic at hand: I really don't care about combat YS, as I'm mostly a civilian pilot. I can't really see a real use for combat squads except for things like combat training.
If you have no use for combat squads, then don't post your distaste in a topic dedicated to restoring them. The idea of this topic isn't to vote on whether we want them back or not... We do want them back. So unless you have ideas to help bring them back, or what went wrong in the first place, then leave.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Copperhead » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:58 pm

So what I'm understanding from Prince is that if you are downed once by an AIM-9X, that gives you an excuse to rampage in a UFO? What I'm getting from Juliet Delta, is that you shouldn't leave cheat planes around for people who want a small excuse to use them. I do have a suggestion for both of you. I think if you wan't to go civi flying on servers, go somewhere that weapons are N/A. I realize that rules are enforced on certain combat servers like CVW-171, but there is always that chance you will be downed...
Darris XTMRage wrote:Good lord. I thought I could finally leave this place, but it seems this is going to become a TR-171st/TA/whatever matter...


Uhhhh.... why haven't you tried to leave?... Seems to me like you stick around just to put your negative/pointless 2 cents in every chance you get...
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Alpha Star » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:01 pm

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Philster » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:09 am

It's been a while since I've last properly flown on a server, so my understanding of the combat community may be a bit blurred.

I was always a combat pilot, and the main reason why I, and I'm sure many others, became less active was due to the fact things got boring. The only squads that had any skill in my opinion was the 171st, and they realized this. Instead of joining the 171st, I was encouraged to join the 241st to try and balance out the indifference in skill that existed between the squad. Nevertheless, the 241st pretty much dead when I joined. After Vincent left, things fell apart as we tried to get a new leader for the squad.
Rise and Shine wrote:Well. I'll get on with recruiting so we can have some proper battles.
From what I've seen since during my time on ysflight, no squad has been able to match the skill and activity of the 171st. The 49th had many good pilots, but the only people I saw on the servers were Waspe and Sanderson. As FAVA made an appearance, and eventually the 323rd that followed, there was a massive influx in pilots. The 323rd soon rivaled the size of the 171st, but they were miles behind in skill. Yes, flying with others can be fun, but when every flight is complete domination on your end, things get boring.

So my take on this? Instead of arguing over who gets who, or that fact the 323rd may have a monopoly on pilots, increase your skill level. Why were people so eager to join the 171st? Because they offered a tight knit group that you could have fun with, and were exceptionally good pilots. People will want to join if you can offer more. Make yourself more appealing by offering better training to increase their combat skills. And please, don't just recruit people just to get more members. At least make sure they a mature enough to not damage the image of your squadron.

The best experience I had in ysflight was flying with the 171st late at night. They took on ground targets together as a team, and when dog fighting, actually put up a challenge.

As for this comment
Rise and Shine wrote:AI aircraft and ground targets? Please. Only real people can truly challenge real people.
Someone willing to take out the super burkes?
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Margatroid » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:18 am

Philster wrote:
Rise and Shine wrote:AI aircraft and ground targets? Please. Only real people can truly challenge real people.
Someone willing to take out the super burkes?
lol those things were rad. only ground target worth fighting imo.
Last edited by Margatroid on Mon May 05, 2014 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Midnight Rambler » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:21 am

It's sweet-chilli-philly!
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Flake » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:13 am

We need the peaceful servers a la 42s and also squad servers for having at it I think.

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Welshy » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:51 pm

I agree with that bloody Marquez Fanboy XD, We need differing types of servers, sharing servers gives issues, always has!

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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by Shiny Rice » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:56 pm

Philster wrote:So my take on this? Instead of arguing over who gets who, or that fact the 323rd may have a monopoly on pilots, increase your skill level. Why were people so eager to join the 171st? Because they offered a tight knit group that you could have fun with, and were exceptionally good pilots. People will want to join if you can offer more. Make yourself more appealing by offering better training to increase their combat skills. And please, don't just recruit people just to get more members. At least make sure they a mature enough to not damage the image of your squadron.
Rise and Shine wrote:AI aircraft and ground targets? Please. Only real people can truly challenge real people.
Someone willing to take out the super burkes?
Sorry, but we are actually mature enough. I don't admit anyone. Hell, I think Simon is in his thirties. And he's getting better. Those things haven't been in servers for ages. So my point is still valid. I'd love that you'd prove me wrong though, I really want to fight one of those.
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Re: Squad combat stagnation

Post by SimonG » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm not even twenty. heh.

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