Some things...

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Some things...

Post by NightRaven » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:58 pm

So.

A couple of months ago, when vandal gave us a rude awakening about the status of our community, Eric ended it off with what I said: we all need initiative. The problem now, is that, as ever, nobody has taken any. Yes, we all had discussions that revived hopes for a better, more active and engaged community, but it all now appears that everything has returned to naught again, as it has been for the past 3 years. Mahora and Bombcat had given us hope of a revival of Military YS, but now with the former inactive and the latter not doing much either (no offence), that has fallen into shambles as well.

However, initiative doesn't appear to be the only thing that is hindering revival. A few days ago, the WW3 server had 4 people online, which was as good as it was in the past couple of days. Hoping to get more people on, I messaged Flake, encouraging him to come online and join in. But he refused, saying Military YS wasn't his thing. It appears that as ever, human nature resists change, and that is also another factor that is killing the forum and the game.

Change can be a major thing. Many times we have attempted to change our ways, in order to see our community in a better light. These changes, such as change in forum design, change in leadership, change in how we play the game, can be exploited to improve our gameplay for good. However, like I previously said, we all say "cool" and we do nothing. This results in lost opportunities to solve this never-ending issue of inactivity.

Also, it appears many frequent the 42South Server. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I am bringing this out to further support my point above. As people spend more time on a particular server, they tend to stick to it and not change to other servers. As a result, other servers like the WW3 and CVW-171 servers which are online pretty much 24/7 are dead. Then people (after an unbearably long time) realise this and start complaining about how we, as a community, are so darn inactive.

Finally, I also notice that many people here are staying on the forums but not the game. Old members like MR, Flake and Eric are technically still active around here, but not on the game itself. And that, to me, is one of the larger issues. With the active players being the new ones like Mobiyus, it can be difficult to attract and retain newer players as they do not have the understanding and experience of the game as the older members. Also, as the admin people (ie the older members) are typically not online, apart from maybe airshows, this can also (maybe, idk) give the sense that the new peeps are being ignored, and even if they get hooked, they might lose interest eventually.

Hence I propose 3 things:

1) Just get on
YSFlight is all about activity, and the main part of this activity should be on the servers, NOT the forums. If there is no one on the servers, people are naturally discouraged to join to avoid the bleak silence that has been the norm since YSP decided to kill itself. This results in a "vicious cycle" and people refuse to join the servers. I admit that yes, there is a short time of the day where activity peaks, but it frankly isn't very substantial. And it is always the same people.

If you have free time, after all your real life stuff is all done, just boot up your PC/Mac and start YS. If there are servers with people, join in the fun. If the servers are empty, be the first guy to start the ball rolling for others to join. I myself have been trying to be more active these days.

2) Don't mod (too much)
Mods are where YSFlight shines, but like the Miscellaneous forum, the time allocated to modding is too imbalanced. I know that modding is a very time-consuming activity, and I believe that this causes many modders (like me :cry: ) to neglect online YS.

For modders, my only advice is to allocate certain times for modding and actual YS action. I know that modding is addictive, and this draws modders away from online YS. In order to improve the situation, try to balance the time used on modding and flying online. The emphasis here is on too much.

For those that are already active on the servers, I don't intend to discourage you from modding. If you do get into modding, just remember to stay active on the servers.

3) Have some initiative
Like I said above, Flake turned down my request to join the WW3 server. And frankly, many don't see the old peeps on servers, except airshows. This, again, is an imbalance. Everybody is only interested in aerobatics only when there are airshows, and not trying out Military YS, exacerbating the already dead situation there. Frankly, even Civilian YS is on its death throes now...

Nobody nowadays actually does anything specialised. Mahora's WW3 weekends only lasted a week and now that he ninja-ed again, no one goes on the servers anymore. As repeated many times before, this is a lack of initiative. Civil YS is dying as well as the bigshots like TB1 are also missing. What this generally means is that once the person who started an event leaves, people immediately lose interest (which frankly, shouldn't happen) and the event sizzles down into obscurity.

Hence, we shouldn't just join an event just because the guy at the wheel is influential, popular etc etc, but rather because we are interested not only in the event, but also in the game itself. We should also begin to take a more proactive role in reviving this community instead of being a bystander and just pointing out our own faults. Fly on the servers, mod, do anything that is certain to help with the dire situation at hand, instead of shitposting (like really shitposting) here.

And soon, Eric will start work on the Leaderboard, after he finishes fixing YSU, so stay tuned for that, especially for those who want a Military YS comeback.

I hope that whatever I proposed above can at least get back on our feet (which is long overdue), and help in the long run. I acknowledge that this is one of the complain threads on inactivity that I am condemning in this post, but in order to get out of this perpetual state of inactivity, we must take the leap and change ourselves first before we can move on to restoring the other parts of YS.

If you would like to counter any of the points I have stated above, or wish to propose new ideas, feel free to post below.

Thank you.

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Re: Some things...

Post by David » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:53 pm

Nightraven, since you mentioned Civillian, I'm going to surprise you a little.
You claim that Civillian YS is dying, you are not looking in the right places.. I can prove to you its not as bad as you think it is.

After the previous YS inactivity topic, many users asked for a dedicated civillian and virtual airline server. Flash forward to today we HAVE the Virtual Airline Server (VAS for short) VAS Server and it has been a great success although the server has not been up and running as much as we'd hoped due to exams, it is up the majority of the time and will continue as exams finish. We also have new Virtual Airlines such as Abel VA Abel VA and airlines from the past returning including Patricks Natcom Air Natcom Air and both are going places!

As for myself, I have been contributing to the Civillian section with the updated IFR ATC manual YSFHQ 2014 ATC Manual and many more resources to come including maps and charts. VAS Charts But not to blow my own trumpet, many others have contributed to the Civillian Aviation section and are still doing a great job.

If I am being a bit one sided, there is a reason for this. I don't know whats going on with the Mil av community nor the Aerobatics, and I'm not going to pretend I know whats going on.

You see, sometimes it's the little things that people contribute that make the big differences.
It's not as bad as you think it is, Nightraven! ;)
Last edited by David on Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some things...

Post by Dan » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:57 pm

I understand where you are coming from, and I mean to add my own words to this. I actually think there is nothing wrong with Ysflight at the moment. Members come and go, a few of us including myself have an intense schedule and try to get on and mod/fly whenever possible. From what I've seen, I think actually highlighting the problem makes it worse. The combat revival thread did regain some activity, however it was mostly blaming other squadrons which in my eyes, put people who wanted to help, off entirely. (My own opinion)

With the civillian section there is nothing wrong, yes we have a little inactivity from time to time though it's not a big deal. Just because they are "big shots" and have left or leaving doesn't mean the place is theoretically "dead". Aslo on the lines of calling people "big shots"' i think this shows that we get too attatched to the main lads running the sections. Yes they own a major Virtual Airline, but they ain't the king if you know what I mean. Maybe if we just pulled back a bit from the leaders and make the section from an individual task to a community task, then maybe everyone will not think so bad at the forum inactivity. Help Ysfhq in your own way albeit modding planes, map making, help and advice etc.

The problem you are seeing is that maybe there are a lot of people who are really busy the past few months with life tasks such as school, college etc. i mean life comes before Ysflight, always. I'm not having a go at you Night Raven, I respect where you are coming from though I think we just need to sit back and relax. ;)
Last edited by Dan on Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Some things...

Post by NightRaven » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:57 pm

The problem here is Military YS. It's been dead for too long.

By the way, what happened to the 323rd?

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Re: Some things...

Post by Alpha Star » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:05 pm

As Dan said, its a busy time of year now for most countries with Exams etc. YSFlight it mainly for people that don't want to spend much of their life on, just something to do now and then. Its not FSX like most people want It to be. That's just life. People have lives and don't need to spend it all of this game. Just got to be fair! ;)
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Re: Some things...

Post by Dan » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Nothing has happened to the 323rd. The 323rd is on holiday due to members having exams.

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Re: Some things...

Post by Neocon » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:43 pm

As George Strait might sing, "You can't make a heart love a particular part of YSF." People enjoy different aspects of YSF. I would argue that the community shouldn't be all about one area, but about all that YSF has to offer. The good news is that in the last week I've seen several new people show up on HQ and servers who seemed interested in military activities. I've seen Bombcat active on servers and I think talking to a possible new recruit. Civilian activity seems pretty stable. Random flying may be the most popular thing on the servers.

I would argue that the sky is not falling. It appears to be getting closer because we are soaring towards it. I just hope our glue doesn't melt in sunlight. I would hate to see hearts get led to YSF only for the heat to make them fall.

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Re: Some things...

Post by VNAF ONE » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:41 pm

I think Military YS is coming back. I mean it's not where it was a few years ago of course due to several blows from various directions, but it's coming back. I think it just looks like it's inactive because most squads are doing some internal work rather than running around saying they're active. For example, the 49th is hanging around, it's just in the middle of a bunch of internal changes. I can't say whether or not it will be active even if the squads weren't "inactive" because most squad activity isn't really on servers like 42south anyway. Basically, things are doing fine and as Dan and Dave have said, not as bad as you think. Civilian stuff is doing fine, aerobatics is always seasonal, and military is just in a bit of a mercenary form.
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Re: Some things...

Post by Midnight Rambler » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:46 pm

I get on servers, just not when I've got exams :(.

I can't be bothered with squads anymore. I know how hard they are to setup and run and I don't have the time to help. I'm happy just jumping on YS when I've got some time and having a fly around, shoot a few people and do a mad C-17 mission... That's about it.


The server issue... Is it an issue? People are creatures of habit and tend to hang around the same servers... It always used to be Eric, then 171st, 42South and now people are heading over to CP's... At least we've got constant servers.
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Re: Some things...

Post by Barr » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:33 pm

YS isnt dead or dying. It's just slowly chugging along. Yes there are many slow days but you have to realize that the school year is ending and many are catching up on school. Just wait for summer to come into full swing. As for the elderly here, well they are old. They're too busy with their bran and other things. Most people work you know. I'm on summer break now so I'll try and get some work done on KATL on evenings after work as well as with Block Island and learning how make scratch built models in blender. Of course that all depends on work and my fishing addiction...

Also I think we have 3 New members this week which is a good thing in my opinion because it seems they're very interested in becoming part of the ys community.

The civilian section is doing pretty swell in my opinion same goes with military with mahora, flamerboy, copperhead, and mobiyus. Can't really talk much about the aerobatics but I've seen a couple squadrons online in the past couple of weeks.

Also The ww3 server and cvw 171 servers are always either locked or off line. The only severs that are up 24/7 are 42 south and hava.

I think Ys is fine as it is right now. We really can't rush the old girl, let her take her own pace. But yea maybe we do need a little shove to get warmed up. Maybe a landing competition or a race (with times that accommodate the Asian folk of course). I think we should ease off the airshows, we don't want them to get routine and boring. Maybe a scheduled meet and greet night where everyone just chills and flys, no worries.


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Also I've been thinking...

Since many of the forums I am part of don't allow for fancy signatures, I've been thinking of opening up a couple of threads and introducing people to ysflight. Of course I haven't gotten the chance because of my internet provider making upgrades to the grid I'm offline except when I'm my phone or using hotspot which isn't cheap.

Here's the pic I was gonna use as a hyperlinked banner. I used a pic from the homepage and the ysfhq logo, pretty simple but eye-catching.Image
Last edited by Barr on Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some things...

Post by NightRaven » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:05 pm

...the WW3 and CVW-171 servers are always online, and the WW3 server isn't locked. It's just the serverlist acting up.

So, tl;dr, everybody's too busy it seems...?

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Re: Some things...

Post by Barr » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Exactly how do you expect people to fly on a server they think is offline...

Also second time in a long time I've seen cvw server up.

For now just give it a couple more weeks.

And the 42south server seems busy...
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Re: Some things...

Post by Turbofan » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:49 pm

Yeah I think it's what the posters above said, people are quite busy with other stuff at the moment. I think things will gain speed in the next few weeks. I got done with college just a few weeks ago myself but am free now. I plan on hosting a server as much as possible every weekend. With different maps. As you said human nature resists change and that can't be any more true than in the case of maps hosted on servers. With the exception of the VAS and a few others like the Japanese ones, what map is always on? Hawaii (at least from what I have seen so far - maybe I'm wrong but that's the map I always see). Now I have nothing against the Hawaii map, it's a great map. However back in the day, I used to see Guam with Saipan, West Japan, Tohoku, heck even the huge moroMAP and Owl's Megadodo used to be online. People need to be a little more adventurous flying in maps they are not familiar with, most of the maps have VORs and some of them even have guides which you can use to navigate (I've included comprehensive guides for my maps and airport guides to make it as easy as possible). As far as the game itself is concerned I fly pretty much everyday, just that a. it's all civilian/commercial (anyone who knows me well enough knows that I'm just not into the combat side of things (not that I did not try, just never got me interested; probably 'cause I'm just bad at combat lol) and b. it's mostly offline. I do get on the servers when I have time (and will more often as the summer progresses). I will have some new videos in the coming days/months however.
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Re: Some things...

Post by Flake » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:47 am

TL:DR;

We all say we want to do things and put these awesome plans in place - but none of us have the gall to go do any of it.

If you spend your whole life planning and not doing anything, you won't acheive anything.

Here's my suggestion: Make a YSFHQ official map - airports, combat ranges, aerobatics fields. All into one big pile of shit and keep making new maps every 3 months, and have people play on that. It'd be fun.
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Re: Some things...

Post by Mobiyus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 am

NightRaven wrote: Finally, I also notice that many people here are staying on the forums but not the game. Old members like MR, Flake and Eric are technically still active around here, but not on the game itself. And that, to me, is one of the larger issues. With the active players being the new ones like Mobiyus, it can be difficult to attract and retain newer players as they do not have the understanding and experience of the game as the older members
It does bother me a bit to see the forum active and not the game, but i don't really care if it's new or old peeps, just log-in the game already! Cuz to be honest, I am starting to loose interest... :? but it's not because of that, it's not all lost just yet.
NightRaven wrote:Also, as the admin people (ie the older members) are typically not online, apart from maybe airshows, this can also (maybe, idk) give the sense that the new peeps are being ignored, and even if they get hooked, they might lose interest eventually.
I personnaly don't feel ignored, but the presence of older members would be appeciated off course :)
NightRaven wrote:Hence I propose 3 things:
1) Just get on
Ok, will do. Will you?
NightRaven wrote:2) Don't mod (too much)
...I know that modding is a very time-consuming activity,...
I knew about this the second i learned this game has addons, no modding for me thank you.
NightRaven wrote:3) Have some initiative
I guess I could do more in that area... just, don't really know what to do, I don't really feel like having responsabilities. Like creating a squad, that's too much. There was those ops i did for a while.. but even that.. there was paperwork involved, meh. Not really what I'm looking for after all. When I'll want a complicated game, I'll go play EVE Online...

But the single most annoying thing that repelled me from this game recently is the frickin errors kickin me out dammit. I can't have all your addons... your addons kick me out... you won't stop using addons for me so... THERE IS NO SOLUTIONS!!! What I do is log on 42s until i get kicked out which takes anywhere between 0 and 45 minutes. Then i log to ww3, i stay there alone for a while, 20 min to 1 hour, then log off for the night. This is what my YS gaming as been recently... can you understand my frustration and disinterest for YS?

I wish you luck with all this. I didn't know YS back in the days, but i feel it's well over and behind.
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Re: Some things...

Post by Neocon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:08 am

Server errors are a problem, and the biggest problem with servers is that some of them have a huge number of addons installed in hopes of making everybody happy. Server errors don't make people happy. I have two suggestions:

1. Server specialization.
If it is a WWII server, only have packs installed that include WWII planes. If it is a modern warfare server, only install packs with modern planes. If it is futuristic, only install packs with futuristic planes. Maybe server owners could organize to carry this out. Of course some packs have all three types of planes, but there would be no reason to install a pack that is completely made up of F-16s on a WWII server.

2. Have a complete listing of installed addons.
It would be helpful if server owners would give a list of all of the addons they have installed with links for downloading them. It would then be up to the individual person on the client side to download the addons on the server of their choice. We could even decide to have a YSF setup for each server.

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Re: Some things...

Post by Midnight Rambler » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:51 am

I can see the reasoning behind changing maps, and I agree with it, but I don't for one reason. 42South is more or less the only server people fly on. Therefore, new guys discovering YS for the first time decide to join it. If the map isn't stock, these guys are kicked from the server for no apparent reason.... I pick stock so newbies can join and don't need to go looking for an obscure map and collect ground objects from a third location to make it work.

Addons:
Always a hard issue. People want their VA's pack, squad packs, TF58, GAC, GCS, Zac's packs, all the OCP and KZS, Major and BNI... It goes on and on.

Below is what is currently on the VPS:

https://i.imgur.com/h67KHqu.png
https://i.imgur.com/ra7FObR.png
https://i.imgur.com/m10uUHe.png
https://i.imgur.com/98GY3Cx.png
https://i.imgur.com/7RhtMDN.png
https://i.imgur.com/Sx4Zyy7.png

ticked = flyable, empty is inactivated.

I had a few complaints about login times, so I inactivated those packs with huge .lst files. My login was halved to roughly 45 seconds.

I don't know where half those packs came from and it would take ages to find links and make a list. Time I don't have... There are some addons that crash YS if you don't have them installed. I'm not sure what they are but I've seen people complain about them. My advice, and I do this, is that if logins are too long; inactivate some .lst. Simply put "d_" in the file name, in front of the actual .lst name (d_aircraft.lst).
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Re: Some things...

Post by Margatroid » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:48 pm

if youre observant, youll probably notice i havent posted anything in the last month, contrary to me being all fired up a couple of months ago. thats because i made a U-Turn; im totally done, over and finished.

now i didnt specifically come here just to post that. thered be no point in posting just that, because thatd make this post pointlessly stupid. instead, ive come to post useful suggestions and not be a complete asshole in the process:

what i realized was, is that its impossible to actually "revive" the old form of combat like me and some of my old buddies have always been wanting to for the last few years because the attitude has changed and the demand of what people want has changed. The people back in 2007-2008 wanted war, challenging each other to kill the shit out of each other. The people now want pacifism, cooperation and friendliness. Back then in 2007, I remember that squads never worked with each other and even if they werent fighting with each other, it was still rare for them to cooperate with each other. Nowadays, i see people joining multiple squads, squads training with each other, carrying out exercises with each other and generally flying with each other, rarely threatening or fighting each other in the process, and usually when they pit themselves against each other nowadays its in friendly tournaments.

The attitude and demand of the general community has evolved, but our ideas of combat, including mine, are still stuck in 2007-2008. Instead of trying to fit 2007 ideas into 2014, the community needs to evolve the way combat works. The first thing that pops into my head that id suggest is creating scenarios where squads can cooperate with each other against NPC enemies, which if i remember correctly, was the original goal of the Philippines map by decaff before it went into development hell. The concept behind that map was that it was supposed to be (if i remember correctly) a large combat zone with Chinese Military and Pirates as enemies capturing Oil Rigs in the area and Phillipine Navy as allies with players as support (squads and mercs), probably a whole load of NPC enemy aircraft and maybe a handful of players as enemy aces and mercenaries.

i am still nostalgic about 2007-2008 though so i dont know if id enjoy taking part in that kind of thing, but thats only really exclusive to me and i wont be a dick about it anymore because that wont solve anything. a lot of you might like the idea however, so there it is. Its also worth noting thats just one idea. Theres probably many others that you can come up with.
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Re: Some things...

Post by VNAF ONE » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:00 pm

I'm actually working on something along these lines with the 49th guys. It'll be realistic scenario based but also sort-of a story line. Blue4 vs Op4 and squads can pick whatever side they want. I'm still working out the details, but hopefully I can get something going pretty soon at the latest when I get back in July.
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