Burner Effects & Stages

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Burner Effects & Stages

Post by Kujo » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:34 pm

Hey guys, I've had a question that has been bugging me so I might as well ask the modding team at HQ. :)

Let's start. I have recently noticed that when throttling up or down, you could change what the afterburner looks like at the back of the aircraft, for example: Darkness Of Enigma's fictional Su-37. The burner cans slowly but surely light up around the inside without cutting straight to the full burner animation. I've tried to find a way possible to change stages of afterburner on one of my own Su-27s but it seems that I can't pull it off.

Here's another example of what I'm trying to do (taken off another sim, but still the same case):

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If anyone has an answer to this, I would happily like to hear it.

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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by decaff_42 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:27 pm

Is this for YSFlight?

If so, you can use a series of throttle animations to add more red to your tailpipe. I believe it has to do with the low vs high throttle static object. It is commonly used in propellers, to make the blade disk appear transparent, but It could be used in the tailpipe.

It would not appear entirely for the afterburner, however it is the best way to approximate this effect in YSFlight to the best of my knowledge. I believe that there is an F-35 model (XF-35B?) in the CEP-2 pack that has something like this. You may wish to look at that for inspiration. :D
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by Kujo » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:53 pm

I am looking through CLA's and what not and I think I understand how to work it out. The thing is, how in the world do I do this in order? I'm not even DNMViewer experienced and I barely know how to change CLAs and edit .srfs

Also a second part of my previous post, how to I import an export a burner into a dnm? An example would be exporting the burner effects from S.C's Mirage2000s, sizing them down, duplicating them and installing them into one of umaibow's Su-27s? And how would I be able to make them work while activating the burner?
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by decaff_42 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:27 pm

Blender is thine friend.

What I do if I want to extract something from a model is open it in blender and delete all other objects and their parent empties, leaving the parts I'm keeping 100% intact. Then I save and export as dnm, and re-import the new dnm into the new model.

For the part of modifing the afterburner, you would have to go into edit mode and scale each one relative to the object origin. I will have to do a video about this sometime, but it involves changing things up a little. (This will be covered in my animation guide I'm working on for blender)
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by Neocon » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:34 am

As far as I know you can't do the newer CLAs in DNMviewer anyway. I do them all with notepad and then check them in the game.

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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by Dragon029 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:32 am

My Su-50 PAK-FA has a nozzle which expands and contracts with a flame that extends. The effect changes with airspeed, but you could always change the CLA's to something else (feel free to DL and mod it)

[BBvideo 560,340]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVxQx-jzmr8[/BBvideo]
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by decaff_42 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:16 am

Ok...that is freaking cool! Does the nozzle do something else when the afterburner is not on?
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by VNAF ONE » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:13 pm

Just don't forget about afterburner nozzles. Most should be divergent (meaning the inside of the nozzle is smaller than the exit) when in afterburner, due to gasses and some sciencey technical stuff. Just make sure to watch accurate videos and such like this one below to make sure you know what the nozzles are doing with and without the burner. Some may perform differently than others.

[BBvideo 560,340]https://www.youtube.com/embed/tdczvix3EiE[/BBvideo]
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Re: Burner Effects & Stages

Post by Dragon029 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:15 am

decaff_42 wrote:Ok...that is freaking cool! Does the nozzle do something else when the afterburner is not on?
This is pretty much everything it does - It could be cleaner / more accurate, but it's already a quite complex area of the .dnm, so I didn't pursue any further effects.

[BBvideo 560,340]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJtoUcrvRhA[/BBvideo]

Basically it works like this:

The engine part of the fuselage ends with a sphere.

Over that sphere there's an invisible null .srf that sits a little inside the sphere, with a child black octagon (smaller than the engine diameter) that is replaced with an orange one when AB is activated. On top of the black plate is another .srf of the afterburner flame holder.

Attached to the null .srf and positioned at each of the 8 edges of the engine nozzle are tetrahedron panels with 2 drooping sides. The 8 are placed are all lined up and then made to tilt in or outwards with the VG-wing CLA (so they change with speed; if it existed, this would be better served with an engine-throttle CLA).

Additionall there's a grey rim that sides inside the petals and moves in and out to try and slightly emulate the inner surface of the nozzle (because doing the petals again would be slightly problematic when they converge / diverge - they would either split apart, stick out through the nozzle, or require significantly more work to made further children .srf's).

The afterburner flame is a propeller CLA, (a couple actually to speed up the rotation) which is slightly off-axis, giving it a slight flickering effect. Thanks to the sphere, the length of the nozzle, the deflections I use and the way the flame is a convex (bulging cone) I can get away with hiding part of it inside the fuselage when at AB low-speed, with it moving outwards as a VG-wing CLA.

Also as VNAF kind of eluded to, my nozzles are actually inaccurate; the petals should open increase with airspeed / throttle in order to provide a greater pressure difference which drives higher exhaust velocities which are needed to generate thrust at high speeds. The reason I've never changed it was simply because I couldn't be bothered re-doing the AB flame and CLA's; the main piece of work would be in being able to fit a regular cone-shaped AB flame in the nozzle dimensions to allow for a notable flame lengthening at high speeds / open nozzle configurations whilst not having them poke out of the fuselage when using thrust vectoring.
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