Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post Reply
User avatar
Dan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:57 am

I've noticed that not much is happening in the civilian section anymore. Do you guys have any brand new ideas or improvements that would help make this section more active like it was back in 2011? Below I've listed a few points.

-> With a recent decline in ATC session popularity I would like to ask you guys if ATC sessions are too hard to join? Would you like to see more training material to help make it easier?

-> Have we set the standard for Virtual Airlines too high that it is putting people off creating one?
e.g Massive fleet pack, huge number of members etc

-> Are people not joining Virtual Airlines because it's too hard or the lack of activity?

-> Is there enough training material to help people create a new Virtual Airline?

-> Are people/Virtual Airlines being put off flying due to server activity?

-> Would you like to see more quick start weekend events as apposed to highly organised events?

I'd like to know what you guys think as even though I'm not staff, I can make most of these things happen.
Image

User avatar
Dragon_Mech
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 571
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:18 pm
Favorite Aircraft: F-14, F-15D&E, SR-71, King Air 200, B737
Location: Mansfield, Mo. USA
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 127 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dragon_Mech » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:29 pm

Dan wrote:Would you like to see more quick start weekend events as apposed to highly organised events?
i like both event types. but i've noticed that we have an issue with not enough people showing up for these events to make the effort worth it.
Dan wrote: -> With a recent decline in ATC session popularity I would like to ask you guys if ATC sessions are too hard to join? Would you like to see more training material to help make it easier?
i'm not sure how i feel about this subject. ATC sessions are fun and educational. but can be a pain in the rear for pilots that can't either use the speech fuction in TS (for one reason or another), or, they can't use TS and YSF at the same time. and typing while on approch or trying to land can be difficult with slow typers or if the reply is longer than two five letter words.
Dan wrote:Are people not joining Virtual Airlines because it's too hard or the lack of activity?
i think it may have to do with the lack of activity. most people won't join a grop that has a large number of inactive members and only 2 or 3 active members.
Dan wrote:-> Are people/Virtual Airlines being put off flying due to server activity?
i would say yes. i find that most of the time, the servers are empty. with the excption of the funhouse server. but C P usually has one or more bots flying around. i personally try to fly in the servers as much as i can (with exception of the grun server. for some reson it hates me :( ) in hopes that i can draw more people to the servers.
Owner, Dragonic Machine Industries
Image

User avatar
Dan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Thanks for your input man, I can see where you are coming from.
Image

User avatar
Neocon
First Class Membership
First Class Membership
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:01 am
Favorite Aircraft: Baron 58
Location: Tennessee
OS: Win Vista
Has thanked: 1513 times
Been thanked: 1632 times
Contact:

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Neocon » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:33 pm

Dan wrote:I've noticed that not much is happening in the civilian section anymore. Do you guys have any brand new ideas or improvements that would help make this section more active like it was back in 2011? Below I've listed a few points.
Good idea.
Dan wrote:-> With a recent decline in ATC session popularity I would like to ask you guys if ATC sessions are too hard to join? Would you like to see more training material to help make it easier?
Between your guide and that of YSATC, I would think there is enough general information about how to operate with ATC. Maybe more people need to read them?
Dan wrote:-> Have we set the standard for Virtual Airlines too high that it is putting people off creating one?
e.g Massive fleet pack, huge number of members etc
I hope not. NCA started up using stock planes for the first year. The VA should be less about the planes and more about flying with other people, in my opinion.

Dan wrote:-> Are people not joining Virtual Airlines because it's too hard or the lack of activity?
I suspect it's an activity issue. There's just not a lot of activity right now.
Dan wrote:-> Is there enough training material to help people create a new Virtual Airline?
In general, I am not sure there is. When I started bringing NCA back I found the information pretty limited. It might be a good idea to put a short, easily-read guide to starting up.
Dan wrote:-> Are people/Virtual Airlines being put off flying due to server activity?
I think the problems are many. On one hand there is the struggle between the old and new net codes. A lot of people still use the old YSF versions, a lot of people have migrated to the 2015 stable release, and the two do not work together. On the other hand, OYS is the answer to that problem, but it still has trouble with stability. Hopefully Flake can get that cleared up. As for server activity, one of the problems is that the server list always shows the servers as empty no matter how many people are online.
Dan wrote:-> Would you like to see more quick start weekend events as apposed to highly organised events?
Yes. I have trouble making plans, especially on Saturdays when I'm usually helping my parents around the house. I've noticed a lot of other people like to wait until the last minute (and I do mean the very last minute) before they sign up and log in. Organization would be better, but it just doesn't seem to work around the HQ.
Dan wrote:I'd like to know what you guys think as even though I'm not staff, I can make most of these things happen.
Yep. You have the knowledge and the technology.

Av8Tor
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:38 am
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 737
Location: United States
OS: Windows 10
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Av8Tor » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:31 pm

I think there should be quick and easy events with some more organized ones every couple of months or so. Quick and easy makes it to where you may have 5 people one week, and 15 people the next. If it is quick and easy then there is no pressure to come and participate in something so large. Sometimes that can be intimidating as well. Plus, it allows a community to be built around people who participate in quick and easy civilian events to get more comfortable flying together.

I think Virtual Airlines are a good thing, and on my last stint with YSFlight I even attempted to make one. But I think that civilian interest needs to be created before virtual airlines are. You can't have a virtual airline before you have pilots. Simple supply and demand. Create pilots that have an interest in Civ flying by holding events regularly, with variation. Then open the door to virtual airlines or pilot groups.

As far as ATC is concerned. I liked the idea when it first started around this time last year when I was flying on YS. However, I think YSFlight is much to simple for something so complex as ATC. Without adequate on-board flight planning tools, multiple radio channels, radar screens, etc. ATC is quite difficult to manage.

This is all just my opinion, by the way.

User avatar
Dan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:50 pm

Thanks for your input guys!
Image

User avatar
jetskit
Penguin Airways VA
Penguin Airways VA
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:57 pm
Favorite Aircraft: 757 - 200,787,a319,a320
Location: scotland
OS: Windows 7
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 105 times
Contact:

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by jetskit » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:22 pm

Like Dan said, thanks for the opinions everyone, it really does help us to see what needs to be improved, and over the next month or so we will be working to try and revitalize the Civilian side!
Image
"Aviation was not an industry nor a science. It was a love."|YS ATCO|PAVA CEO|

User avatar
Barr
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:49 pm
Favorite Aircraft: The Boeing 757
Location: Providence, Rhode Island
OS: Windows 10/Gentoo
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 199 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Barr » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:51 pm

Av8Tor wrote:I think there should be quick and easy events with some more organized ones every couple of months or so. Quick and easy makes it to where you may have 5 people one week, and 15 people the next. If it is quick and easy then there is no pressure to come and participate in something so large. Sometimes that can be intimidating as well. Plus, it allows a community to be built around people who participate in quick and easy civilian events to get more comfortable flying together.
+1

Weve been relying on the same approach for all events for a bit too long. And well its getting routine and boring.

I feel that having spontaneous random events here and there with a max of one week notice and with diffrent theme and planned for maybe an hour or 2 max will get peoples attention.

For example. Next saturday island hopping with c130s on pats carribean map. Or maybe a "Break the controller" Event where we have multiple controllers have a shot at trying to handle an influx of arrivals and departures.

Events dont have to be planned strictly for commercial flying. Shake it up a bit, if its has a hint of civie its good enough. Or we dont have to fly strictly cviliian. Like a fighter jet only flyin.

I dont know. Online flying and events are just boring now.

Also the serverlist. Oh boy that serverlist and his little butt kisser friend the serverbot. If theres mo one flying online why should I waste bandwith, fps and risk of being dropped midflight? If flying solo offline is better. Maybe implement another small chat box strictly for announcing online flights?
Image
Beginner ATC for hire!
Current Projects:
-Pilatus PC12
-Mooney M20
-New England Scenery
Fine Print:
**Word of Caution**
My knowledge is limited. Anything I write in my posts may or may not be accurate. To be honest I think its all crap.

User avatar
Turbofan
Senior Veteran
Senior Veteran
Posts: 1736
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:22 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 747, all variants
Location: Central OK
Has thanked: 861 times
Been thanked: 588 times
Contact:

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Turbofan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:27 pm

The thing with being dropped off the server midway into a Los Angeles-Honolulu flight or something like that, or the lack of people on the servers is what also keeps me from being online sometimes. Now I'm being honest, I have made every attempt to join a server and do a flight even when no one else is on. I like flying commercial/civilian/GA, as anyone who has seen me for a while now knows. It's what I love to fly period. As long as I'm having fun I don't mind flying by myself, but at times even I like to fly wih someone else. It just makes it all the more interesting and provides an incentive to join a server. So when I have the choice of seeing the new Euro Truck Sim 2 updates and flying on a dead server, with the possibility of getting kicked off, only to have wasted an entire hour, guess what I'm going to pick.

As far as the 2011/2013 YSFS thing goes, I will admit, if I'm hosting a server I am being somewhat detrimental to people joining my server (of which there aren't very many to begin with anyway) since I have stuck to using the 2011 version. In due course I will upgrade to the 2015 version but that will not happen until next year since I want to finish the CMI map I am currently working on, which due to real-life stuff will probably take most of the rest of this year to finish.

As far as ATC is concerned, I have done ATC for online events (just ask Patrick) and it can be done, but what I've found is make it too complicated and people will just refuse to come and fly. They do not want taxiway Kilo, taxiway Charlie blah blah, they do not want an entire pre-departure briefing which they have to repeat back. All they really want is simple instructions (e.g. "... taxi runway eight left full length, cleared for takeoff eight left, etc). Also, there is no need for enroute air traffic control unless a new pilot really needs directions and headings. Most pilots already know how to work the VOR dial, set it and forget it. A simple "resume own navigation" will work perfectly, and for busier airspaces like we sometimes have, say, at HNL, the current Terminal Area Control can be easily done (I have done it myself and it's not that bad). What we do need is more participation so controllers won't feel like they're wasting their time doing nothing, when in fact they could be flying and having fun.

Just my 2 cents' worth.
Check out my YSFS videos on my Youtube channel!
-----------------------
ATRP: When used in my posts refers to "Air Traffic Replay Project"
-----------------------
Avatar: Pratt and Whitney JT8D-219
-----------------------
My general rant: I will call them blended winglets, not Sharklets; There is no CEO, it's just simply put, an Airbus 319/320/321, or the 320NEO, 321NEO etc. I didn't land IN DAL, I landed AT DAL. On the other hand, I did land in Dallas.
-----------------------
New website update as of July 3, 2018: New map modification policy under "Map Information" and updates to the GRID and WIP!
Turbofan's Terminal

User avatar
Dan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:46 pm

Again thank you guys for the input.
Image

User avatar
Gunny
Business Class Membership
Business Class Membership
Posts: 3188
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Any thing with a prop.
Location: New Iberia.LA.
OS: Windows XP SP3
Has thanked: 539 times
Been thanked: 682 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Gunny » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:05 am

Just a few observations from an anti-social ol guy but I absolutely love small G/A flying on high detail real location maps and aircraft and that unfortunately can not be done on most servers with few exceptions due to the lag factor.Hopefully when Flake gets OYS perfected the SFX he has built in will offset that shortfall of the servers and give a little extra impetus for server flying.About the only server I visit from time to time is Pat,s civil server due to his semi-realistic locations[No insult intended Pat.] and mostly vary late at night or should I say mornings just to avoid to many people on the server.

As for ATC assisted guidance flights let me say that ground taxi instructions are in theory vary nice but it is difficult to follow that guidance when there are no markings to follow on the taxiways unless you happen to have the airports diagram at your fingertips for reference and most don't.One thing that I would like to see but I understand the inherent difficultly is flight following services.
Now here is a sensitive subject about ATC controllers and clients.Sometimes it becomes adversarial in nature particularly between new people and experienced members.And the reverse is also true.Loosing patience usually means loosing participants on both ends of the mic.Keep your cool people its only a game.No one dies because of a bad call or confusion of the new guy.Laugh it off and go around and try again.When it stops being fun people stop playing.

Edit:One thing I would have on a wish list for ATC is a dedicated subset for YSFHQ controllers who's sole purpose was ATC for any server that requests it.
Image[/align=centre]

User avatar
Dan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:17 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Dan » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:25 am

So from what I can see so far, I'd like like to summarize the following:

->YSFlight Air Traffic Control Services
I gather that the current ATC Services may be too complicated for YSFHQ members to handle. Though I would like to state that at no point during my ATC events taxi ways were given so I don't know where this is coming from. Turbofan I have an idea to drop our individual ATC and join up with you on YSATC to become more standardized, there we could possibly work together to make a brand new ATC manual and easier service (expect an PM shortly!). For area control we introduced this as a test though I can see how it can be quite intrusive so we will no longer operate this demanding position during future events.

->Virtual Airlines
Myself and Jetskit have been talking about reviving VA Certification, though i'm still waiting on Jetskit to talk to the Staff about this idea. For those that don't know, VA Certification is basically where you get a badge for your website to show your apart of and serving YSFHQ. It has also become apparent that we need a basic manual explaining how to start a Virtual Airline. I'm pleased to inform you that I have started work on this very manual which should be released in this section soon.

->Events
From the general comments, It seems that the best type of events are not too organised. We will work together to bring brand new events to the table especially more group flights since they are a lot of fun, so stay tuned!

->Inactivity
Yes, it still exists. Though I'd like to point out that doing this really constructive topic has actually increased interest in this section. It's great to be able to find out what we can do to make this a better place instead of keeping it behind closed doors. Hopefully from this topic we will be able to make a better Civilian section and possibly inspire Military and Aerobatic sections to do the same.

Again thank you for your really constructive comments, Though if anyone still has anything to input please feel free to go ahead as the more ideas the better!
Image

Av8Tor
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:38 am
Favorite Aircraft: Boeing 737
Location: United States
OS: Windows 10
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Av8Tor » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:44 am

Honestly, I just do not see YSFlight as being a community that would effectively utilize ATC for an event. Just my opinion.

User avatar
David
Modding Team
Modding Team
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Favorite Aircraft: Grob G109B Vigilant
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 184 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by David » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:05 pm

Av8Tor wrote:Honestly, I just do not see YSFlight as being a community that would effectively utilize ATC for an event. Just my opinion.
Trust me Av8Tor, it has been done quite well , just we need to make it a lot easier than before by removing all of the unnecessary stuff.

User avatar
Barr
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:49 pm
Favorite Aircraft: The Boeing 757
Location: Providence, Rhode Island
OS: Windows 10/Gentoo
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 199 times

Re: Civilian section Ideas/Improvements

Post by Barr » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:23 pm

Av8Tor wrote:Honestly, I just do not see YSFlight as being a community that would effectively utilize ATC for an event. Just my opinion.
Be gone with you demon!

But Its always nice to have a controller on to help give that extra touch of realism. But it also sucks that they can only controll one airspace. If there were only a better radar program out there. That way once activity dies down and everyone is in the air the controller doesn t have to sit and wait an hour for the next plane.

Also witth the only 10 people or so on here who actually fly vivid and use atc they all have lives and diffremt schedules so planned events end up being cancelled or really dead with only a few flyers. The Twins Lanai event is an example.


And also. I think there should be a poll and encourage everyone to vote and share their thoughts and views here.9 people out of 1000? Cmon there has to be more people out there interested in civie?
Image
Beginner ATC for hire!
Current Projects:
-Pilatus PC12
-Mooney M20
-New England Scenery
Fine Print:
**Word of Caution**
My knowledge is limited. Anything I write in my posts may or may not be accurate. To be honest I think its all crap.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests