Request: T-38C Talon

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Deleted User 1872

Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

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Hi YSFHQ members and modders. I've seen that there are no really "good looking" T-38C Talons out for download for YSFlight at the moment, which is why I have set up this little request topic to see who could possibly pull this off; a descent looking T-38C Talon with an instrument panel and details as close as the basic BNI F-16C Falcon. Of course I am a modder myself not experienced with making models from scratch, only good at repainting. :P It can be a blank model so that once it's complete I could be able to repaint it into multiple liveries. Doesn't need any exterior decals or things like that, I'll be able to deal with that. I would be stoked and pleased if this model becomes a real thing in YS. Happy flying :)

Basic Information

Role - Present Advanced Trainer
National origin - United States
Manufacturer - Northrop Corporation
First flight - 10 March 1959
Introduction - 17 March 1961
Status - Operational
Primary users - United States Air Force
United States Navy
NASA
Turkish Air Force
Produced - 1961–1972
Number of units built - 1,146
Unit cost - US $5.879 million (2013 dollars)
Developed from - Northrop N-156
Variants - Northrop F-5

General characteristics

Crew: two: student and instructor
Length: 46 ft 4.5 in (14.14 m)
Wingspan: 25 ft 3 in (7.7 m)
Height: 12 ft 10.5 in (3.92 m)
Wing area: 170 ft² (15.79 m²)
Empty weight: 7,200 lb (3,270 kg)
Loaded weight: 11,820 lb (5,360 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,093 lb (5,485 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-5A (J85-5R after PMP modification) afterburning turbojets
Dry thrust: 2,050 lb (9.1 kN) each
Thrust with afterburner: 2,900 lbf[54] (17.1 kN) each

Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.3 (858 mph, 1,381 km/h)
Range: 1,140 mi (1,835 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,240 m)
Rate of climb: 33,600 ft/min[55] ()
Wing loading: 69.53 lb/ft² (339.4 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 0.65

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Instrument Panel / Cockpit

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Engines (Yeah, it's got afterburner)

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Last edited by Deleted User 1872 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Cobalt09 »

I know there's an F-5F floating around from a pack. Was it from Oranleed? Maybe that could be re-purposed as a T-38.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by ksh »

that was exacly what i was thinking, get a f-5 and reshape it a tiny bit!
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

@Cobalt09

Might be, but there's a lot of changes and differences between the two as far as i know. It really goes into depth starting from the whole airframe. :)
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Copperhead »

I second this request, T-38 is a lovely aircraft and I'd like to see a good one for YS.

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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by iqmal_97 »

Kurosaki did a couple of T-38 Talons in different paintschemes a while back. But they're repaints of the F-5F from Oranleed. Still worth having it in your aircraft inventory, nonetheless. :)
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by NajmiCreative »

The cockpit look like Hawk cockpit.....you can took my RMAF'S Hawk-108 cpt file a little bit as visual cockpit and parts from the dnm file of the Hawk-108 .....
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Stingx »

And I thought the talon and tiger had small engines. :shock:
Yeah you can tell the airframe is more curvy on the T-38.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Alpha Star »

There are many T-38s in Kuros Pack somewhere.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Scarecrow »

If this hasn't been clear enough, Kuro's "T-38's are NOT Talons. They are F-5F Tigers.
Kuro shouldn't had released them under that name and rather F-5's, because that's what they are. NOT T-38's.

The biggest difference is the nose. The F-5 has a very duck bill nose on the front, while the T-38 is more rounded.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

Praise Scarecrow. (I know those feels)

And many more differences. If a pic of an F-5F is put near a T-38C pic, nothing is the same except the tail and elevators.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by decaff_42 »

Kujo wrote:Praise Scarecrow. (I know those feels)

And many more differences. If a pic of an F-5F is put near a T-38C pic, nothing is the same except the tail and elevators.

Not even the wing? I would have thought that would be the same.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Midnight Rambler »

decaff_42 wrote:
Kujo wrote:Praise Scarecrow. (I know those feels)

And many more differences. If a pic of an F-5F is put near a T-38C pic, nothing is the same except the tail and elevators.

Not even the wing? I would have thought that would be the same.
Surely the wheels or even bolts and paint would be the same :)
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

Midnight Rambler wrote:
decaff_42 wrote:
Kujo wrote:Praise Scarecrow. (I know those feels)

And many more differences. If a pic of an F-5F is put near a T-38C pic, nothing is the same except the tail and elevators.

Not even the wing? I would have thought that would be the same.
Surely the wheels or even bolts and paint would be the same :)
@Decaff I'm pretty sure that there are angle and edge differences all across the wing. Also if you count the pylons on the tips that could be a difference.

@MR Bolts should be the same I agree, not too sure about that. The gear in general looks the same but not the paint on the jet.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by VNAF ONE »

So would a nose change and wingtip change be sufficient or do you want an entirely accurate model? Also, some information on the differences between the two would probably help the modder greatly (aka photos from the same profiles so that the differences can be accurately picked out). I tried searching a side by side and found one but it's labeled F-5F where it should say T-38 (or maybe I'm confused too?).
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by iqmal_97 »

Midnight Rambler wrote:
decaff_42 wrote:
Kujo wrote:Praise Scarecrow. (I know those feels)

And many more differences. If a pic of an F-5F is put near a T-38C pic, nothing is the same except the tail and elevators.

Not even the wing? I would have thought that would be the same.
Surely the wheels or even bolts and paint would be the same :)
Upon one swift glance, yes, both of their "base"
designs look the same. Which is not that surprising when they're essentially both made by the same company, Northrop.

But if you know where and what to look for, they can be differentiated quite easily. As long as you can see these features:
ImageImage

The Talon is the predecessor of the Tiger. So, being that the Tiger was the pioneer aircraft that incorporated the Leading edge extension design feature, the wing roots of the F-5 leads to a rounded shape. Compared to the T-38 which has its wing roots end in a more "square" shape and meets the fuselage straight.

Another subtle feature is the air intakes. The ones on the T-38 has a more rounded appearance whilst the F-5 is a bit straighter. Note that the air intakes on the F-5 is also swept back a bit.

Lastly (and one of the most easiest to identify) is by looking for the wingtip missile launch rails. Being built a trainer, the Talon never had any, while the Tiger (all variants, including the two-seater versions) has it.

Of course, they're many more subtle internal differences that would be too discreet or complicated for this plane fanatic to discuss, so there's that.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Deleted User 1872 »

VNAF ONE wrote:So would a nose change and wingtip change be sufficient or do you want an entirely accurate model?
In my opinion, I would rather see a model made by scratch. If they can mod it out of the F-5F, that's fine. They would have to majorly change it from the cockpit to the antennaes and etc. (I really just need a blank model with no paint except inside and on the gear and cockpit ;) )
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by Cobalt09 »

Well, it seems my idea was quite wrong. Interesting to hear about these differences, though. Never knew anything about them, to be honest.
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by decaff_42 »

I believe the stubbier nose is due to the removal of the twin 20mm cannons. I too like to learn about the differences between the two aircraft. :D

Who was it that was working on an F-5 afterburner recently (couple months back). Kujo, was that you?? That might be something that could be incorporated into the new model...
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Request: T-38C Talon

Post by VNAF ONE »

Another fun fact is the aircraft were designed a year apart but mainly by the same person (Edgar Schmued). I'm tempted to look up and see if he made any "notes" on what changes were made and why he chose to make them.

Oh and by the way, it's this image I was talking about but I think it's a bit misleading. The top should be a T-38 right?
Image

Now this is just confusing . . . notice the top has wingtip rails and the intake is representative of an F-5, while the nose, cockpit, and pretty much the entire top of the aircraft has features of a T-38. The bottom is exactly what I think of when I think F-5.

EDIT: So I think I see what the problem is (one of the reasons it's so hard to tell the difference). The F-5F (shown above which means both of those are F-5s) included multiple airframe changes most likely to accomodate the 2nd seat and all. These changes included reshaping the nose and the general fuselage, which most likely these changes were drawn from the T-38 design. From what I can see in photos and now looking back at the photo above, I think this is a valid point right?

I'll continue investigating and see if I can find some legit evidence/explanation of these types and all.
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