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B747 or A380?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:37 am
by Not1011
I chOOsE dA L-1011, dA trUE wIdEbOdy

Seriously, though. Which one do you prefer?

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:48 am
by Welshy
Is there any debate? One is one of the most successful airliners of all time and one has been a compete flop

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:47 pm
by Neocon
HA! Trick question. The correct answer is DC-3.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:03 pm
by Hornet
Neocon wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:47 pm
HA! Trick question. The correct answer is DC-3.
DOUGLAS RULES

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 pm
by decaff_42
Personally I'm partial to the 747, but I'm torn between the 744 and 748

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:05 am
by Not1011
decaff_42 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 pm
Personally I'm partial to the 747, but I'm torn between the 744 and 748
Go 748! I never REALLY liked the 744, although I do like all 747 versions. 748 is modern, too, and has more modern engines, compared to the A380's ancient looking engines.
Welshy wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:48 am
Is there any debate? One is one of the most successful airliners of all time and one has been a compete flop
Yes, the A380 has been a complete flop, not only financially, but aesthetically, too. It has got to be the ugliest plane ever made.

Oh, and I choose L-188 and Model 10 Electras.
Hornet wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:03 pm
Neocon wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:47 pm
HA! Trick question. The correct answer is DC-3.
DOUGLAS RULES
DOUGLAS SUCKS, LOCKHEED RULES

Except for anything conceived before the merger with McDonnell. Oh, and Lockheed made a mistake merging with Martin Marietta.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:19 am
by Gunny
In my opinion, they're all just big ugly flying cylinders. Hasn't been an elegant airliner since the Conny went out of service ;)

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:31 am
by Turbofan
As if you didn't know my opinion... :D Have had the pleasure of flying in the -100, -200 and -400 variants. And those equipped with all available engine manufacturers! (GE CF 6-80, PW JT9-D and RB 211-524).

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 am
by Not1011
Gunny wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:19 am
In my opinion, they're all just big ugly flying cylinders. Hasn't been an elegant airliner since the Conny went out of service ;)
Nostalgic much? The only ugly planes are Airbuses. Airbus can never seem to get aesthetic stuff right ever since the A310 was released and the Cold War ended. In the words of an Airbus designer: "Air does not yield to style." Yeah, Boeing proved you wrong 1,000x over. The only remotely good Airbuses are the A300, A310, A340, and A350. Forget the A380 and the thousand or so variants of the A320.
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:31 am
As if you didn't know my opinion... :D Have had the pleasure of flying in the -100, -200 and -400 variants. And those equipped with all available engine manufacturers! (GE CF 6-80, PW JT9-D and RB 211-524).
Off topic, but the RB-211 isn't manufactured anymore. That kinda died with the 747-400. Neither is the JT9D. P&W should really bring back the JT9D, never mind the PW series.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:04 am
by Turbofan
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 am
Off topic, but the RB-211 isn't manufactured anymore. That kinda died with the 747-400. Neither is the JT9D. P&W should really bring back the JT9D, never mind the PW series.
Right, I never said they're still being manufactured. I just said I flew in a 744 equipped with them ;) Still, plenty of RB 211-equipped aircraft flying around (BA 744s, AA 757s among others).

While I do share your passion for older engine types, efficiency is king these days. The JT9D was a great engine for its time, not the case now.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:47 am
by Not1011
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:04 am
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 am
Off topic, but the RB-211 isn't manufactured anymore. That kinda died with the 747-400. Neither is the JT9D. P&W should really bring back the JT9D, never mind the PW series.
Right, I never said they're still being manufactured. I just said I flew in a 744 equipped with them ;) Still, plenty of RB 211-equipped aircraft flying around (BA 744s, AA 757s among others).

While I do share your passion for older engine types, efficiency is king these days. The JT9D was a great engine for its time, not the case now.
Then how is the CF6, an engine that's just as old as, if not older than, both of those engines, still in production and in use on modern aircraft? The 767 and A330 use it, and so does the Kawasaki C-2; all three are currently in production. General Electric is also planning on reengining some An-124's with the CF6, in place of the Lotarev D-18's, last I read.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 am
by Turbofan
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:47 am
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:04 am
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 am
Off topic, but the RB-211 isn't manufactured anymore. That kinda died with the 747-400. Neither is the JT9D. P&W should really bring back the JT9D, never mind the PW series.
Right, I never said they're still being manufactured. I just said I flew in a 744 equipped with them ;) Still, plenty of RB 211-equipped aircraft flying around (BA 744s, AA 757s among others).

While I do share your passion for older engine types, efficiency is king these days. The JT9D was a great engine for its time, not the case now.
Then how is the CF6, an engine that's just as old as, if not older than, both of those engines, still in production and in use on modern aircraft? The 767 and A330 use it, and so does the Kawasaki C-2; all three are currently in production. General Electric is also planning on reengining some An-124's with the CF6, in place of the Lotarev D-18's, last I read.
GE kept adapting the engine to meet modern standards. While not used for the latest and greatest aircraft, the engine fits a niche for the aircraft you mentioned, and also fits well as an upgrade on some models. Right now, the latest variant is the E1, which is used on the 330. It also helps that some of the aircraft that are being powered by the CF6 have good order backlogs, which in turn ensures that the CF6s that have been ordered will continue to be produced.

UPS retrofitted its 727 fleet with Rolls Royce Tays before retiring them in the mid-late 2000s. If there's a case for it, the engine keeps getting produced.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:07 am
by Not1011
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 am
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:47 am
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:04 am
Right, I never said they're still being manufactured. I just said I flew in a 744 equipped with them ;) Still, plenty of RB 211-equipped aircraft flying around (BA 744s, AA 757s among others).

While I do share your passion for older engine types, efficiency is king these days. The JT9D was a great engine for its time, not the case now.
Then how is the CF6, an engine that's just as old as, if not older than, both of those engines, still in production and in use on modern aircraft? The 767 and A330 use it, and so does the Kawasaki C-2; all three are currently in production. General Electric is also planning on reengining some An-124's with the CF6, in place of the Lotarev D-18's, last I read.
GE kept adapting the engine to meet modern standards. While not used for the latest and greatest aircraft, the engine fits a niche for the aircraft you mentioned, and also fits well as an upgrade on some models. Right now, the latest variant is the E1, which is used on the 330. It also helps that some of the aircraft that are being powered by the CF6 have good order backlogs, which in turn ensures that the CF6s that have been ordered will continue to be produced.

UPS retrofitted its 727 fleet with Rolls Royce Tays before retiring them in the mid-late 2000s. If there's a case for it, the engine keeps getting produced.
The JT9D and RB211 are high-bypass turbofans too. It'd be logical to at least try to update them. Oh, and the JT8D is still offered, heck, maybe even still in production, for replacing the JT3Ds on the Boeing 707 fleets, and it's advertised as being half the cost of the competing CFM56.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:08 am
by Not1011
OP: The 747 will never die, while the A380 will likely be axed by Airbus within the next decade.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:25 am
by Welshy
Gunny wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:19 am
In my opinion, they're all just big ugly flying cylinders. Hasn't been an elegant airliner since the Conny went out of service ;)
I have to disagree Gunny. Concorde being the obvious example and I'm partial to the Trident, VC10, ATP and Heron although that might be my love of British design.
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:07 am
Turbofan wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 am
Not1011 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:47 am
Then how is the CF6, an engine that's just as old as, if not older than, both of those engines, still in production and in use on modern aircraft? The 767 and A330 use it, and so does the Kawasaki C-2; all three are currently in production. General Electric is also planning on reengining some An-124's with the CF6, in place of the Lotarev D-18's, last I read.
GE kept adapting the engine to meet modern standards. While not used for the latest and greatest aircraft, the engine fits a niche for the aircraft you mentioned, and also fits well as an upgrade on some models. Right now, the latest variant is the E1, which is used on the 330. It also helps that some of the aircraft that are being powered by the CF6 have good order backlogs, which in turn ensures that the CF6s that have been ordered will continue to be produced.

UPS retrofitted its 727 fleet with Rolls Royce Tays before retiring them in the mid-late 2000s. If there's a case for it, the engine keeps getting produced.
The JT9D and RB211 are high-bypass turbofans too. It'd be logical to at least try to update them. Oh, and the JT8D is still offered, heck, maybe even still in production, for replacing the JT3Ds on the Boeing 707 fleets, and it's advertised as being half the cost of the competing CFM56.
Where do I start? The RB211 killed Rolls, they failed to get the scaled down RB206 I think its called into service and the Trent family was already incoming. Not being in a family doomed it from the start, MGTs are essential profit earners, as are generator units, it's nieve to think it comes down to airliners. There is next to no 707 aircraft looking to be reengined on scale, most have been done and now aircraft such as the E-3 are being replaced soon, starting with RAF Wedgetails. Also the A330 is no longer in production, the neo is, big difference! Also the civil 767 line is closed to orders and will not be reopened and the C-2 will not sell more than 80 units.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 am
by Turbofan
^The 330 is very much in production ;) Albeit with weaker demand.

Re: B747 or A380?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:17 pm
by Not1011
OP: The GP7000 turbofan looks like an enlarged JT8D to me.

Engine discussion going on: Also, manufacturers should really start making planes with the Allison T56 again, the civil variant (501). Turbofans have too much dominance nowadays, and the PW100 series has nothing on the T56, and neither does the AE2100.

Oh, and the 767 is still produced as a civil plane, just only as a cargo plane. They should put the passenger version back into production as an entry level widebody, because the 787 seems too expensive.