YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

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YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Skipper »

Hello all! You may well have come across this, but since the release of YSF source code, there is a bit of a community project to release a new version of YSFlight under the name of YSFlight Community Edition.
The project has been a little stale as of late, but we're having a bit more of a push to get something released in the hopes of drawing in new contributors.
So, this is our current state of play:
We have received the OK from Soji to release Ysflight on Steam, so the main push at the moment is to get a release up and ready for a steam release. New features will be limited, nut at the same time we want to get the best 'vanilla' experience for new players coming to YS through Steam.
So, what we need from the community at large is:

Background images for the main screen. Ideally in a lot of different aspect ratios/resolutions.

Aircraft: we need to look at what aircraft we want to be the new vanilla, and we'll need to ensure the copyright on those covers being distributed via YS:CE.

Maps: Stock, or do we add some new ones? Copyright again needs considering.


Sounds: a nice sound pack would be good, but again, copyright! (Applies for everything!)

Weapon models: stick with vanilla, or can we add some additional ones in?

So this is a call to everyone, whether you're a modder, graphics person, programmer, or just a flier. Please have your say in the future of YS:CE!

It'd be really great to get this moving, and pushed to a release, rather than letting it due quietly in a corner. Even if it's not exactly perfect, let's get it out there and try and get more people interested.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by decaff_42 »

I think BNI-inspired would be good for default weapons. I've got a bunch of weapons made for HQPGAC that could be easily used. Something that is light weight like the default weapons, but no where near as ugly.

Also, not sure if it can be done, but reversing back to 2015 performance and stability would be good. There are quite a few bugs with the 2018 version of ysflight that effect the ability of players to even run the game.

HQPGAC is a long way off from being a true stock replacement, and even then the lack control surface animations is a detriment in my opinion for being a stock model set.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Skipper »

The version on GitHub is the 2018 version (although it might be slightly updated since the 2018 release).
There are some areas where comments are present stating that something is from the 2018 build, but the 2015 version isn't available as a neat rollback. I think we'll have to stick to the 2018 version, although my test version I've just set the version code to the 2015 version, and it plays just fine with 2015 servers.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by wingzfan99 »

I don't know how I can help, but I'd be happy to. Even if it's just helping out on maintaining GitHub.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by ROKAF-15 »

Great news!!! I hope I can see ys on steam and lots of people enjoying ys around the world(ps.I hope missile accuracy should be changed. I think it is little odd that AIM120 has teribile accuracy and can be avoided by flare.So I think it should changed before release a ;) ) (Also, I think it would be great if this edition has detailed tree and textures and water... current version gives feeling that water is just flat blue ground.....am I asking too much? Sorry if it is) :mrgreen:
Last edited by ROKAF-15 on Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:34 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by ROKAF-15 »

Aircraft: I think hornet pack is suitable for this editon because it has topgun skins that attract users and detailed aircraft and HD cockpit.
Scenery:johns town would be great also, 2ch map should be fun during combat,also there is topgun maverick mission scenery in ysflight korean but I don't that maker will allow to use..
Sound:hmmmm
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Skipper »

@ROKAF-15, you'll be pleased to know that a missile update has gone through. With regards to AI dogfights, they're now able to use flares on all missile types, and much closer in as well, so using missiles on them is now much more difficult.

Not sure if you were aware though, but even if they drop flares, if you keep a lock-on, the missile will attempt to re-acquire the target (limited by it's turn rate), AIM-9X is able to turn really well.

When it comes to aircraft and maps etc, the licencing is a bit of an issue, so 2ch map, for example, would require permission from the original developers, and I'm not sure if they're still active, same thing with any packs added.

But appreciate the ideas! Keep them coming!
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Nodoka Hanamura »

Honestly I was wanting to make a bit of a cleaner post for something like this but Skipper both beat me to the punch and contributed more than I have outside of setting up the Github. God, seeing this makes me feel like the end of Hypnospace Outlaw in a way, coming back to keep something from my youth alive - not in a bad way of course :D

Anywho - I'm going to reinforce Skipper's statement: YSCE is looking for both developers to contribute to code, and for people to contribute assets. As Skipper mentioned, some refinement is in order before we make any major changes to existing features or adding new ones.
decaff_42 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:23 pm I think BNI-inspired would be good for default weapons. I've got a bunch of weapons made for HQPGAC that could be easily used. Something that is light weight like the default weapons, but no where near as ugly.
I agree. BNI-based low-poly yet medium detail weapons would be a good answer to our problems on the weapons front.
decaff_42 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:23 pm Also, not sure if it can be done, but reversing back to 2015 performance and stability would be good. There are quite a few bugs with the 2018 version of ysflight that effect the ability of players to even run the game.
Sadly I can't comment on this as I'm not a developer on the team, just a maintainer and bug reporter, but It'd be my hope we can improve performance and stability. We already have some performance improvements from Mofumofu-san and a new developer, Jobbin, that have fixed some issues relating to ground object rendering - in the master, and we're hoping to tackle more of them as we come across them.

We've yet to figure out how we're going to handle releases, but I think we'll probably go with a three-way setup if everyone is onboard with it:

- Nightly Builds - bleeding edge versions made every night that reflects that day's changes to the YSCE source (Do not expect stability let alone performance)
- Beta Builds - testing and release candidate (essentially betas that are nearly ready for stable) versions that are good to get the latest fixes and features - Stability and performance may be hampered, however
- Stable Builds - Essentially the same as how Soji used to do releases - these are the final product and reflect the work made up until that version - and should be polished enough for 'production' use.
decaff_42 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:23 pm HQPGAC is a long way off from being a true stock replacement, and even then the lack control surface animations is a detriment in my opinion for being a stock model set.
Agreed. I personally never cared for the HQPGAC style and felt it was made due to the performance issues inherent in YSFlight and due to the amount of lowend hardware running it. These days I feel we can do without that.. I think? Or at least implement a more advanced LOD system that can both be based on distance and on user preference like it is now.
ROKAF-15 wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:30 am Great news!!! I hope I can see ys on steam and lots of people enjoying ys around the world(ps.I hope missile accuracy should be changed. I think it is little odd that AIM120 has teribile accuracy and can be avoided by flare.So I think it should changed before release a ;) ) (Also, I think it would be great if this edition has detailed tree and textures and water... current version gives feeling that water is just flat blue ground.....am I asking too much? Sorry if it is) :mrgreen:
It's my personal hope to fix that (as Skipper has already started some work) and make YSFlight Combat a bit more grounded. I'm not wanting to turn YSFlight into DCS, no - but implementing things like AA/AG Radar, realistic missile and bomb physics, Laser/GPS guided munitions and HUD modularity and customization per aircraft, among other things are things I personally would love to see - something like a cross between VTOL VR and Tiny Combat Arena.

Also don't worry about asking things. We're just trying to get a feel for stuff right now but knowing what people would like is good - this is why it's called Community Edition, after all. That being said, more detailed trees and 'textures' may be possible later. Right now we're focused on getting YS presentable and ready for Steam, and from there we'll sort out changes and improvements on the game. That being said, with the current code and how it implements textures for scenery, it might be possible, but it'd require looking into by our coders.
wingzfan99 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:29 pm I don't know how I can help, but I'd be happy to. Even if it's just helping out on maintaining GitHub.
As one of the current maintainers (alongside Decaff), just reach out to me with a PM with your email/GH username and I'll sort out adding you as a maintainer.

---

All that being said, I'm going to second Skipper's statement that any contributions need to be okay to reuse in YSCE. If people want to include their scenery, aircraft, etc. - that's fine, but we need to be sure that we can use them first.

Please post your suggestions, ideas, contributions here, or on the Github as Issues (for ideas or bug reports for the latest version of YSFlight or YSCE) or make a pull request and upload your files (for adding content or making changes to code) and we'll look it over. Thanks for all the feedback and help!
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Super Interceptor »

by ROKAF-15 » Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:00 pm

Aircraft: I think hornet pack is suitable for this editon because it has topgun skins that attract users and detailed aircraft and HD cockpit.
Scenery:johns town would be great also, 2ch map should be fun during combat,also there is topgun maverick mission scenery in ysflight korean but I don't that maker will allow to use..
Sound:hmmmm
This has potential. There's also a large Amiga community whose interest could be piqued if this project were seen in part as the "spiritual successor" to F/A-18 Interceptor.
Last edited by Super Interceptor on Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Ayr3s »

Hello ppl! I'm back from the long gone era of 2015!! :D
I came back because I just found out about the source release and I'm volunteering to help. I am no expert coder in C++ but I do know some C and I can adapt and try to help the best I can. YS is a long time favorite for me and I've been wanting a good polished release for some time. My main concerns regarding the current state of YS are the following:
- Improve performance to something comparable to older versions. My optimistic performance target would be to make YS playable again on low/mid end machines from 2010.
- Improve physics model for aircraft - this is something I've always felt Soji was going to do at some point but never happened, I looked at the CL curves in the github repo and the model is very simplistic, I believe we could improve it by a lot without refactoring big parts of the code. The big challenge and red flag for this is that an update like this would change the performance for all planes and everything would likely need retuning, so not likely to happen in the near future, but something to think about.

Anyway, I looked at the code briefly and it surely can use some cleaning. Let me know where I can be of help!
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Skipper »

You're welcome to fork the code and see whether you can implement the changes before putting in a pull request to update the main repo! If you need help compiling, give one of us a shout
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Nodoka Hanamura »

Ayr3s wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:43 pm Hello ppl! I'm back from the long gone era of 2015!! :D
I came back because I just found out about the source release and I'm volunteering to help. I am no expert coder in C++ but I do know some C and I can adapt and try to help the best I can. YS is a long time favorite for me and I've been wanting a good polished release for some time. My main concerns regarding the current state of YS are the following:
- Improve performance to something comparable to older versions. My optimistic performance target would be to make YS playable again on low/mid end machines from 2010.
- Improve physics model for aircraft - this is something I've always felt Soji was going to do at some point but never happened, I looked at the CL curves in the github repo and the model is very simplistic, I believe we could improve it by a lot without refactoring big parts of the code. The big challenge and red flag for this is that an update like this would change the performance for all planes and everything would likely need retuning, so not likely to happen in the near future, but something to think about.

Anyway, I looked at the code briefly and it surely can use some cleaning. Let me know where I can be of help!
We'd love to have you aboard to help out. Feel free to contribute to the Repo and make PRs or issues where needed! If you'd like, we have a discord server that I can invite you to if you'd like to chat with the rest of the dev team - just hit me or skipper up in PMs.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by YSFan »

Re: the stock ATC system, I'd love it if it were overhauled to allow for user-set callsigns in single-player ATC and navigating by waypoints.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Nodoka Hanamura »

YSFan wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:50 am Re: the stock ATC system, I'd love it if it were overhauled to allow for user-set callsigns in single-player ATC and navigating by waypoints.
This is a good idea, and would be something we'd look at when we work on eventually reworking ATCs and adding dynamic air traffic in the future.

Please keep up the suggestions, guys. And don't forget to submit them as issues on the Github so we can keep track of everything.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by JOBBIN »

Hi all!

Just realized I had made an account here a while back and never used it... I want to keep the ball rolling on YSCE development so I figured I'd chime in here too - feel free to message me with any questions, requests, etc!
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by decaff_42 »

I've been enjoying seeing the tweaks and updates you've been working on
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by ROKAF-15 »

one more request! well ys physic engine is almost complete but if there is damage on plane such as g-force wing breaking,hard landing gear damage ys will become more closer to flight simulator instead of games like ace combat. Also,I have most detailed maps but the texture was still looked like 90's graphic technology I hope new version has more detiled texture such as GEOFS and GTA definitive edition( :?: :?: :P ). I don't want YS to become like DCS, however this verson will be released on STEAM. There are lots of flight games that has made in at least 2010s which means has better graphic than YS. In my opinion, in order to make more new users through steam, I think enhanced graphic and physic engine is neccessary. (you guys were real heroes in YSFHQ remastering YSFLIGHT!)
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by HawkbitAlpha »

ROKAF-15 wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:00 am one more request! well ys physic engine is almost complete but if there is damage on plane such as g-force wing breaking,hard landing gear damage ys will become more closer to flight simulator instead of games like ace combat. Also,I have most detailed maps but the texture was still looked like 90's graphic technology I hope new version has more detiled texture such as GEOFS and GTA definitive edition( :?: :?: :P ). I don't want YS to become like DCS, however this verson will be released on STEAM. There are lots of flight games that has made in at least 2010s which means has better graphic than YS. In my opinion, in order to make more new users through steam, I think enhanced graphic and physic engine is neccessary. (you guys were real heroes in YSFHQ remastering YSFLIGHT!)
We already agreed, as soon as the YSCE project began, to keep the core graphical mechanics mostly the same as they always has been, since we know that YS's main niche is (and always has been) filling in the gap of flight sims for people like myself with awful PCs. Still, we could definitely get some nicer looks out of it, like Soji already has with things like the lighting engine and particle effects. I'd love to see a YS where everything looks like this.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Nodoka Hanamura »

ROKAF-15 wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:00 am one more request! well ys physic engine is almost complete but if there is damage on plane such as g-force wing breaking,hard landing gear damage ys will become more closer to flight simulator instead of games like ace combat. Also,I have most detailed maps but the texture was still looked like 90's graphic technology I hope new version has more detiled texture such as GEOFS and GTA definitive edition( :?: :?: :P ). I don't want YS to become like DCS, however this verson will be released on STEAM. There are lots of flight games that has made in at least 2010s which means has better graphic than YS. In my opinion, in order to make more new users through steam, I think enhanced graphic and physic engine is neccessary. (you guys were real heroes in YSFHQ remastering YSFLIGHT!)
I'm going to break this down so people are well aware of what I feel reflects YSCE's future.

1. We are planning on eventually working on reworking physics and implementing other sim-lite features.
2. G-Forces having an effect on airframe integrity is definitely something we'll look into.
3. Graphics-wise, we plan on building upon YSFlight's aesthetic. Believe it or not, graphics isn't everything. My hope, taking the rest of the team's interests into consideration is to turn YS into something akin to Carrier Command 2 or Why485's Tiny Combat Arena - both modern games that have a low-poly yet decent looking aesthetic, while keeping YSFlight's trademark feel at least mostly intact. This as Hawkbit stated, also doubles back to another point about YS - its' low hardware barrier of entry is why it has stood the test of time.
4. I will nip this in the bud right here. As much as I push for things like implementing radar, IR and other things to replace the weapons systems in YS, The reality is that we are not turning YS into DCS. That is not only unfeasible, but flies in the face of our goals of retaining backwards compatibility with the 20+ years of content created by the community, as well as retaining the very soul of YSFlight - a free, pick up and play flight sim that doesn't take forever to learn, but also has enough depth to entice even hardcore sim fans and Arcade pilots alike to give it a try.

Avionics in YSCE will be more in line with sim-lite offerings like VTOL VR and the sort, where weapons systems and the sort are not 1-to-1 with real life systems, but will be modelled to both be similar to them and also be easy to understand and use.

There is a lot we need to work through before we have something close to what YSCE will be. Things like implementing weapons jettison and a RWR are just the start, and we are quite limited by the pram that Soji has put us in. That being said, we have hammers and shovels, so it's just a matter of time and manpower.
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Re: YS Flight Community Edition: Call for help

Post by Captain_Ahab »

Here is my unpopular take on this...

I think the game should be redone on an established game engine, such as Godot or Urho3d.
Networking code is done, as is a physics and render engine.
Much of the physics and shaders/rendering are offloaded to GPU while the CPU can utilise multiple threads
A scripting language can be used to modify parts easily.
A particle system can be used for better explosions, smoke, clouds, etc.
Assets made in blender can be brought in easily with maintained import/export scripts and include any animations done in blender
Full graphics tools are available but do not have to be used, depending on the aesthetic desired
Terrain can be constructed easily with heightmaps, procedurally, or some other method
Basic terrain texture can avoid obvious tiling and there exist decent water shaders, if desired
Some form of auto LOD support could be used
More advanced sound systems
Data streaming can lead to truly humongous maps

YSFlight is just too clunky and ponderous to do mods compared to using something relatively modern

I love YSFlight's simplicity in play, in contrast to DCS
I loathe its antique workflow and tools
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